...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

I really, really don't think you understand the emotional, physical and mental toll of looking after elderly parents OP. The fact that you have never had to do it and are basing everything on what you might have to do one day speaks volumes.

I think it's a massively complicated and personal thing. My "d"m will not be coming to live with us, she spent my childhood telling me she wished I was a cot death statistic and demanded that I abort dc2 because my pregnancy at 40 was apparently inconvient to her.

However even if I didn't dislike her, I don't think I'd want her anyway because of what I've seen with my Grandmothers. Grandmother 1 just died, she was 95 and had my aunt essentially a prisoner running around after her. Grandmother 2 is 97 and still going "strong". Neither would contemplate a home or care because that's what their children are for...even though they were/are exceedingly frail and need a lot of help with things like the toilet/feeding etc.

Partly because I had children later in life (partly due to fear of becoming my mum), I'm not willing to uproot my family and move to her location and she won't move here. She's already 75 and has a few health issues but my eldest is 4 and very settled with lots of friends. As a child who was dragged around Europe with dad's job, I want him to have the stable childhood I didn't have with friends he's known from baby groups.

Hell would freeze over before I became my mum's carer. She's already stubborn and inflexible and she's only 60. She has a huge house that she'll never agree to give up. She'd accept me moving in there to care for her. But who'd want to move their family in the house of hoarder? I'd have a breakdown within a week.

Besides that, I live in a different country and haven't had contact with my mum for 4 years.

I'm not suggesting living in a multi-generational household is easy. I realise it isn't and that's why a lot of my peers don't want to do it but I think that's selfish TBH.

Well, good for you

It doesn't make people selfish for not wanting to have their parents living with them full-time. Lots of people don't have the space, or they have enough commitments of their own without adding two elderly parents into the mix as well.

'In terms of dominating the TV, well there would have to be compromises made (either its family voting and/or they have a TV in their own room when they want to watch specific things).'

I am actually LOLing at this, having recently got back from a difficult visit to MIL where we discovered that one thing she has lost since she turned 84 is the ability to compromise over things like TV channel and volume, heating temperature, bedtime - all the things that make it OK to share a living room with someone - it has to be her way and she gets upset if one of the kids leaves the room!
And, NB, she is a kind and much loved mother and grandmother but we were running ourselves ragged trying to please her and it never worked. This is the reality of ageing for many people. We don't love her any the less but there have to be limits for everyone's wellbeing.

OP, please go and take a look at the Elderly Parents board and educate yourself about the reality of caring for older people. Your OP makes you sound like an absolute fuckwit.

My parents looked after my grandma and great aunt at home during their 80s. One had colon cancer and a colostomy bag, the other had senile dementia, at the same time. At that point they also had 3 children under 8.

It was so traumatic for them that they told us explicitly not to look after them in their old age. They are both in their 70s now and have never wavered.

I think each situation is far too individiual and nuanced in my opinion to make a sweeping statement about any person's obligations to another like this.

I think that’s selfish

I think you sound nasty and goady. Good on you for ignoring the comments detailing why it isn’t possible to look after elderly parents.

There are many on the thread, who have explained they cannot afford to give up work, have young children, are carers for disabled children, ill or disabled themselves.

I’d really love to know where you think the money would be coming from if someone, who had to give up work. The elderly parent may either not be in a position to help financially or simply refuse. Maybe people should just do it anyway, get thrown out of their homes for non payment of mortgage / rent and go to food banks, perhaps? Then ooops there would be no home.

Your hyacinth Bucket is showing through.

I think I’d have more respect for your opinion if you were several years into caring for parents with significant needs. As I am.
When they were elderly but still trotting around, needing help with lifts, shopping and whatnot, that was the easy bit. Now, as others are saying, it’s a lot more, a lot harder and my sleep is as broken as when you have a toddler.
Plus, I had a good childhood and I like my parents. I don’t think I’d manage if I’d not had a good relationship.

The problem with the caring of parents is it keeps them in their own homes which can be counterproductive.

DH and the carers did lots for MIL and she stayed in her own home. Honestly she would have been better off in a care home and probably would have had better health.

Some parents also need to take responsibility. Just because you don’t want to move doesn’t mean you shouldn’t - lots of people live in houses that really aren’t suitable in their old age.

I had a lovely mum, she was kind and caring and helped out loads with my children when they were young. Around five years ago we noticed Mum’s memory was getting worse and we had to help her out a lot more ( we live close by so it wasn't too difficult despite me being an only child and us both working full-time) A year ago my mum fell at home ( she had forgotten to drink and turned her heating on fully on a hot day) after a short stay in hospital, the ward staff and a social worker made the judgement that she didn't 'have capacity' and could no longer look after herself at home. The social worker helped by setting up a 'means on wheels' service and carers to come in 3 times per-day to help with meals, washing, dressing etc. Mum hated the intrusion to her home and life and, by now, the dementia was making her quite nasty at times-especially to me. I left my mum's house in floods of tears more times than I can remember because she couldn't and wouldn't accept any help or suggestion of help from me or anybody else. It wasn't her, it was dementia. Mum tried to undress by herself when she remembered but would fall quite often when she tried to step into or out of her clothing, she ended up in hospital again and this time it was decided that she would need 'round the clock' care. I can only imagine how miserable both of our lives would have been if I had moved in with her, not to mention the strain on my finances through giving up my job the strain on my marriage through moving out of my home etc. Mum went onto a care home for people with dementia last October, she accepts being looked after by the lovely carers there and has made friends with another lady like herself, no she isn't always happy -she has dementia so there a lot she doesn't understand but on the whole she's way happier now than she was at home, our relationship is intact and ( most of the time) she enjoys being visited by the family. It wasn't an easy thing to live with though the majority of my friends and family were very supportive. One friend in particular though who looks after her elderly mother alongside other family members regularly posts on fb telling everyone what a 'privilege' it is to look after our elders who once cared for us and it never fails to make me feel like a failure. The title of this post did the same so thanks for that OP

@Yabbers

My mother did it and it nearly broke her. My grandmother was nearly 100 when she died. My mum is in her mid 70s. Her older brother is 80. Neither of them were young enough to care for grandma but mum did it out of duty. Her younger siblings didn't raise a hand to help. It broke her and broke her family

Were there specific reasons the younger siblings didn't help?

If not, then I think they're the people I'm talking about...

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

YABU. This doesn't just make it 'harder', it makes it impossible in many, many families.

'I'm'not suggesting living in a multi-generational household is easy. I realise it isn't and that's why a lot of my peers don't want to do it but I think that's selfish TBH.'

Have you done it, as the main carer?
If not I think you are being absolutely OUTRAGEOUS in calling people selfish for not wanting to.
Maybe you should consider that the reason they may not want to is that they know a darn sight more about the reality of it than you do.

I think that, barring abusive situations and distance, you should "look out" for elderly parents. That includes helping w stuff they find difficult (eg new technology), keeping an eye out for conditions w dementia, help w DIY etc.

Looking after elderly parents is something completely different. Iptovide some care for my father, who has dementia. There is no way I can provide all the care he needs - there is no way to do that without giving up my job, and my own life. And I have no problem in making my dh and children my first priority.

I personally would not want my children involved in personal care for me if the time comes . I would consider it a dignity issue. I have made it very clear that if I need washing,toileting and dressing I do not want them involved!! Take me out if possible,visit regularly if they can and make sure I am being properly and kindly looked after .

Funny isn’t it that parents are so quick to get kids to leave, lots of now you are university you won’t be co I get back etc, and then there is an expectation that the same kids would look after you in old age? There’s different forms of caring, my mother is independent at the moment, but won’t want to leave her home if she becomes frail and needs help so Carter’s will go in, none of us want to be responsible for any personal care, my mother knows that and is happy with that.

Each family is different with different bridges to cross, it’s not a one size fits all, and what works for you may not work for others. Bully for you that you can afford to move, lots can’t and won’t have the room for parents to live with them.

I'm certain you'll feel very differently about the situation in ten years time.

It's nearly broken my lovely MIL and she works part time so god knows how anyone who's working full time manages it.

Plus it depends on your relationship, many people I know (myself included) don't have good relationships with their parents.

Mine haven't been there at times when I really could have done with some support and they bitch and complain endlessly about my "needy" nan who would just like a chat with someone every couple of weeks (she's not needy in the slightest), they are very selfish individuals so I certainly don't feel obligated just because they are my parents.

I think that most people do WANT to care for their elderly parents, but it isn’t always possible. I would love to have been able to do so for my mum, but she lived 400 km away. She had MND (ALS). She didn’t want to move to my house, as she lived with my stepdad, and also didn’t want to leave friends she had developed over decades. So I would have had to uproot my family, take DDs out of school, put our jobs on hold (not actually an option), or get new jobs, which would have been near impossible, as she lived in a very low employment area, and our jobs were not really transferable. Alternatively, I would have had to leave my DH and 2 DDs alone, also difficult as my DDs were too little to get themselves ready for school and get there, and my DH had to leave for work at 5:45 am. So there were not a lot of viable options. Sometimes wanting to do something and being able to do something are not workable.

Alll my friends of my age had to move away from their parents to get work (this was in Norman Tebbits 'get on your bike' years. Our children are having grandchildren that need child care (almost every retired grandparent I know is having to help out with this) and we're stretched in every direction.

The generation that almost automatically looked after their elderly parents, was the one where women weren't expected to work, and where grandchildren were looked after by their own parents, or if not, by affordable childminders. And of course couples could live on one wage.

So even if we're not talking dementia or some other difficult to care for condition, life is just different and family resources are much
more stretched.

Neither my mum nor my MIL could have been cared for by us (even if they didn't live 100/150 miles away) as one is so physically disabled by a stroke that it takes two carers to even move her, and the other has advanced dementia.

I cared for my Gran. At first it was twice a week i used to do her shopping and do her housework. Then she started getting worse. I had a thread in 30 days about her. I was there near enough to 24 hrs a day. I would get her up and dressed and give her her breakfast. Toilet her when needed and make her meals and do shopping and housework. All day every day. All while caring for my severley disabled son whose behaviour suffered badly. Eventually while a social worker was there i said if she didnt get help in the form of carers i would walk away. Her answer was oh well i suppose id better then. My health was suffering badly and i couldnt cope with her anymore. The carers are bloody brilliant and even though they go every day she still expects me to drop everything and see to her needs. And shes getting worse. We all think shes getting dementia (although she does play on it) In the last few weeks ive been accused of stealing money, lying to her about her bed,(dont ask) and trying to get her out of her house so i can sell it! So no OP i dont really think you have any idea what caring for someone is really like. And i hope you never have to either.

i'd help my parents (mum and step dad) but dps parents are on their own. They don't give a shit about him, don't do anything for him, ignore us both most of the time and his dad is an abusive twat. They don't deserve his care in old age. If they wanted it they should have treated him better.

We have a downstairs bedroom with ensuite and my MIL once asked me what I was going to do with it. I said I wasn't going to change it as one day one of our parents may need help. She then turned round to me and said "I'd rather be dead than live with you".

I'm off the hook then. LOL

Having worked in care and witnessing how quickly an elderly person can deteriorate even with the proper care and equipment I don't want my kids to care for me and I don't want to care for my parents, even though I have the right training.

I want to know they have a team of people around them trained to spot when they might need reasessing for mobility or when they have a UTI or when their cold is more than just the sniffles. I want to spend with them in their twilight years not on them.

Ideally, I would like them to move to care home or independant living facility once my dad turns 70, if he makes it to 70, as that's when things start going downhill quickly. I plan on being heavily involved in their care. I will attend social functions with them, appointments where possible, go and cook them a decent meal a few times a week as carers don't often have the time to provide cooked meals but I won't be involved in their personal care and I want someone who is not me, who is not personally invested in their health and well-being to get to to know them. Someone who is trained to know when they are declining and when the decline is natural ageing and they simply need their care plan updating or when they need medical assistance.

My pension age (at the moment) is 68. Politicians are talking of putting it up to 75. There is a good chance my parents will be dead before I can actually retire - and you only have to look at the pension threads to see how many of us are struggling to save for that life stage.

When someone starts saying "children should care for their parents", they are talking about about the daughter who has sacrificed earning and pension potential, as well as sleep and health in extreme cases.

Dial back two decades or so and many of us died of "quick" diseases, such as heart attacks, strokes and pneumonia. Getting to 80 was an achievement! Today, it's expected. Whilst that's a miracle of modern medicine, society has not caught up.

I think we do need more sheltered care units and retirement communities - it's noticeable that people decline after their spouse dies and loneliness is a major culprit. Japan is doing a lot of work in this direction as they now have more elderly people than young babies. For dementia, we need to stop brushing the problem under the carpet and start joining up the NHS and social care to rebuild the geriatric hospitals and outpatient care.