...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

@TheBouquets my parents were 83 and 79 when my eldest was born and neither had the interest or physical ability to provide any care for them. My mum had a massive stroke in her mid50s (I was 10) and hasnt been physically able to provide any support for any of her grandchildren. It wouldn’t have occurred to my Dad and he’s only interested in his own needs. Their expectations of help and support from me didn’t reduce when I was on crutches with SPD and trying to manage gestational diabetes with my youngest

My MIL is a bit younger than my parents and helps with whatever she can (although she lives a long way from us) but she has a very positive outlook on life which my parents have never had

@brassbrass The phrase was used as an exaggeration. There is so much determination on this thread that parents are not going to be looked after that it could be that some would have parents in a care home quite early on the age and ill-health route. Further having spent a long time as a carer I know that it is very difficult to get an elderly person into a care home even as a temporary measure to give a carer a break. I have not read every word on the thread but I lived the carer life for a very long time.
I have also watched the demand for babysitting and childminding become a demand but the least request for help is treated as a terrible request i.e the bin is heavy can you put it out the front NO and this after childminding all day!
I think I have a good understanding of the situation of caring and of being expected to babysit or childmind DGC.

If you lot think it's bad being expected to look after your own parents...then imagine this. A childless elderly relative of mine used to make endless comments about how I could be the one to look after her in her old age...despite never helping me with childcare or being a parental figure to me despite my parents dying young.

I shut it down quickly. I've had none of the benefits of having parents..no way am I having the shit parts.

It is very hard being a carer but that does not mean you have to stick your elderly relatives in a Home if they so much as sneeze.

We did not put my mother in a care home because she sneezed. We put her in a care home because of carer breakdown; because of incessant phone calls all day and all night because her duvet had slipped, or the pillows weren't right, or because the arrangement of things on her bedside table wasn't perfect; because nothing I could do was right; and because of her repeated and distressing attempts to kill herself within the limits of what she could do and reach because all she wanted to do was be with her husband, my dad, who died years before.

So kindly don't tell me a care home is the easy way out. Sometimes it's the only solution to a problem that is destroying everything you hold dear - your marriage, your children, your own life.

I think the government and the NHS have to start looking at this situation.
It is unsustainable. It was more than I could sustain. The absence of other family members was noted. I think that is wrong but that is not for me to change.
NHS want to discharge elderly patients home and they dont care how they do it. I have personally seen emotional blackmail of an elderly patient and I have heard threats of a house being broken into to effect a discharge. The NHS does not get that if they continue to force people to care they will gain a bed for a few hours but they will also "make" new patients by making willing family carers ill with being overworked.

That’a bit hardcore @TemporaryPermanent

I agree. Risking death due to complications of an easily curable urine infection in your early 60s?! Sounds a bit bonkers really. I totally get not wanting to linger on for years with zero quality of life but that seems a bit OTT! How old are you now? Maybe when you get closer you’ll realise it’s not really that old! Plus kids still get a lot from their relationships with their parents as adults, it doesn’t stop at the arbitrary age of 25 my OH lost his mum when he was 27 and I know he’d have loved more years with her so she could have met all her grandchildren.

It's difficult in practice though isn't it. My parents are in their 60s, last retirement age but my dad is still working as he was made redundant at they wrong time and his pension is shocking. My mums mum is still around, mid 90s. My mother is in VERY poor health. She has lupus, osteoporosis, rheumatoid among other major issues. He's fractured her back just moving bags. My grandmother is a very unreasonable woman. She's a pathological liar. There is nothing wrong with her memory she was been assessed twice this year!

She makes up things, tells people she doesn't see others, took herself to bed (which I totally get at her age) but expects to stay at home and have everyone run around. She has Carers 4 times a day, my father goes in between 3/4 times a day, my mother's back and forth there, the neighbour are in, one neighbour 3 times a day. She had a take away deliver two meals a day, she sends the Carers for food I.el chips once a day, she has the Carers make her salad/chips etc. She will call my mum up (who is in a wheelchair most of the time now) to come open things or pick up things she's dropped all day long. She's made up some serious lies such as family stealing money or abusing her, at which Point I stopped going as social services were involved and frankly I have 4 children, two with special needs and I Wasn't prepared to be accused of anything.

The reality is, she a very very troubled woman. For example the pharmacist will call in and she will will cry and ask him to make her a drink as she hasn't had one all day, or call the gardener and ask him to come over and do something like that. She's called the GP surgery before and told them she's not eaten in days(despite her eating significantly more than an average active adult). She has call ambulances fairly consistently, complains of chest pain and she knows they form straight if she says that and then says she's not had a cup of tea all day (LIE) and she thinks it's causing her v
Chest pain. Ambulance service are obviously not happy, social services now fully aware, but she plays off people, complains and makes up lies about Carers stealing etc and my mum gets taken in by it all and it's lies.

The situation is killing my mother.

The reality is, my mum keeps trying to do everything and please her (which is impossible) and it's because if ideas like this that we should feel obligated. The chances are my mother will die before her ta this point. She drive my grandfather into the ground and he died despite being really really healthy, but she literally drove him into the ground.

So Franky, I disagree, I think we all have our limits, I'm not going to have that opportunity, I mean I have been caring for my mum from childhood but now, she's going rapidly downhill as she's breaking things and having to increase mediations just to keep trying to serve my grandmother.

It's so much more complicated than that OP.

I work full time and don't drive. So if I choose to go to my parents house and say do a bit of tidying up or cook dinner for my dad then I don't get home until 9pm - I wish I could do
Both but sometimes, selfish or
Not I just don't want to do that.

My mum had more serious medical requirements and as much as I (and even my dad) tried to care her her but in the end it was physically and emotionally destroying him, it was causing me huge anxiety problems and she wasn't getting the care she needed.

It's not a black and white topic.

All these people saying they won't have their children caring for them; my mum always said that. Until she didn't. She always said she would find herself sheltered housing. But she didn't. It's really no good just to say it when you are relatively young; as you get old and vulnerable, you feel safe with your children and want them looking after you.

Right now it's best to fill in an Advanced Directive, specifying no treatment after a certain stage, or even age as Temporary has done, and give copies to GP and family, so it doesn't get to this awfulness that so many of us are experiencing.

YANBU but others on here will tell you otherwise.

On top of not wanting to look after their parents they want an overstretched SS to foot the bill and still keep their inheritance when NONE of us pay enough in tax for the privilege of endless medical care or social care.

But hey, I've just worked in the system for 20 odd years. What would I know?

We're currently looking at a larger house to accommodate one or both of my parents when the time comes.

I wouldn't have survived the last 10 years in particular without my mum. There's no way she's going in a home unless we cannot care for her physical needs or unless she develops severe dementia and becomes unmanageabley aggressive.

More and more couples are working full time and no longer live near either of their families. This can lead to less empathy in some cases and a lack of compromise eg. If your parents need care do you move closer to them or them to you what do you do if in laws need the same help? It could mean upheaval for your family if you move in terms of changing jobs, schools etc.

My gran moved in with us for a few years after she had a stroke and my parents looked after her. My mum was a sahm and did all her personal care all the whilst trying to make sure gran had her dignity. When her situation improved she moved back to live with my uncle abroa. Had my mum not been a sahm this would not have happened, she was a godsend and my dad is forever grateful that she looked after his mum with so much love. This did have a knock on effect on us all as we did more around the house to help mum as did my dad.

I live 4 hours away from my parents and dh will not move to my hometown ever. It is expected that my brother will take care of them should they need it and one of my sisters lives nearby and would hopefully help if needed.

My nan was taken care of by carers as none of her kids lived close enough to help with the day to day care. She lived with my uncle but they had 4 kids and his wife felt unable to meet nan's needs.

My in laws live in their own home with bil and sil. I would expect them to do the bulk of the looking after as they reap the benefits of having grandparents on tap for childcare at the moment and they also live with them so makes sense. However, I work part time so would be happy to help wherever possible and would not mind if they came to live with us.

Sometimes older people can have very complex needs and if you can't meet them it would be unfair to try and then end up resenting them. If you can help great but you should do so happily and not under duress.

@FelicisNox My parents are fully self funding at a cost of £90k a year to maintain them in their choices. As self funders they pay MORE for the same service than those funded by the local authority. They have also paid vast amounts of tax (still do) as do all their children (all HR tax payers).

Plus I will have more than earned any inheritance I eventually get

@FelicisNox
As a social worker in the overstretched system, I recognise we need change but I don’t necessarily see why we deal with the woeful lack of resources by forcing untrained people to provide care.
I cannot tell you how concerned I have been seeing the way some - well meaning and loving - family members move and handle their relatives. Despite training, people choose to use different methods and it often ends up with a carer having a very bad back. That’s just one issue I encounter daily.

@FelicisNox unless we cannot care for her physical needs or unless she develops severe dementia and becomes unmanageabley aggressive.

This is the point that has been made numerous times per page!!!! If a parents needs could be met at home with relative ease there would be no need for care homes. As people live longer often (although not always) their needs increase sometimes to a point it is inappropriate or unsafe for them to be at home without trained carers. Not many people could afford to give up work (and thus forfeit some of their pension) to provide 24/7 care, and thats without taking into account any dependent children.And the fact that if a person can't physically stand or support themselves they may need 2 people to help them get dressed, change incontinence pads, move from bed to chair etc.

I see so many posters who are speaking from a position of privilege, talking about buying bigger houses and adding stairlifts. Many people cannot even afford to buy a property at all, let alone a bigger one for relatives. It’s unrealistic.

Further having spent a long time as a carer I know that it is very difficult to get an elderly person into a care home even as a temporary measure to give a carer a break

I think people massively under-estimate how expensive and how hard it is to get care! The state isn't going to be handing out care home places at the drop of a hat just because your parent is a bit confused, and unless you have more than £1000 a week to pay for many years, you won't be getting much care. The issue is not parents vs professionals, it's that professional help is way harder and way more expensive to obtain than childcare and everyone moans about that!

it depends on the level of care needed. My mum has often said that when she's old(er) and unable to care for herself, she doesn't want me or my brother to have to care for her. She wants us to get on with our lives as they shouldn't revolve around taking care of her and dad. Obviously we would visit and be there as much as possible but full time care if required would have to fall on someone else. I don't want my kids spending years looking after me when I'm old and infirm either. After having to leave the room so my mum could change my grans soiled pants and clean her up, I don't know, not something I ever want my sons doing. Ever. And I would not expect it. As it stands I will never be in a financial position to be able to give up work to look after my parents if they required that type of care. And I don't know what I'd do if they ever did as nobody has the finances in my family to pay for a care home.

Most people only need full time care towards the end. The kind of care family normally provide is very different from full time care.

But hey, I've just worked in the system for 20 odd years. What would I know?

You know absolutely nothing about personal circumstances. You make it sound so easy, but again from your post it sounds like you are yet to actually do it. I have had one parent who was cared for at home due to circumstances (young, strong social circle, straightforward disease, I had no other dependents at the time) and one who needed a care home - still relatively young but complex neurodegenerative disorder. We self funded at extortionate rates as the system twisted his needs to be social/personal and so means tested rather than fundamentally medical which would be covered by the NHS. Portraying going into a home as a negative thing which represents a failure on the behalf of the family is a huge generalisation and ignorant of all the variables at play. Sure, some people may do it because they can’t be bothered, the same as some people may keep relatives at home in unsuitable circumstances which aren’t in their best interest to save money.

Typical MN being goady is fine but being called out on it isn't.

Carers who are paid Carers' Allowance are entitled to 6 weeks off twice a year. Not 100% sure that is exact but at the time I was a carer there was some such expectation.

To fail to give any break from caring is foolhardy because the carer will get ill and SS and NHS will have the carer as a patient as well as the caree.
To the SW above. When people are really up against it as carers they don't really care about the financial situation of your budget but they will remember that there was no official help when they were falling apart after saving the country a fortune in care costs.

But hey, I've just worked in the system for 20 odd years. What would I know?

My father has pre senile dementia. I will help my mum care for him. But it is because I have some understanding of dementia that I know it is unlikely he will be able to be cared for at home until he dies.
And I am already caring for a relative with schizophrenia, have a disabled DP, kids and a part-time job. There is a limit.

I don't think people are underestimating care home costs. If the existing arrangements aren't sustainable then they aren't sustainable. You go from popping in to daily visits to multiple visits a day to multiple carers a day. At some point something breaks and it makes more sense to move them to a care home. Because carrying on means break or die yourself.

Relative has Alzheimers. In their 70s. Physically in good health and could go on like this for another 10 years. But they have no recognition of anything, doubly incontinent, does not sleep at night, has volatile mood swings and follows their carer round 24/7. Dressing undressing can take hours as they don't cooperate. Think 6ft man resisting. Nevermind time to clean up after a poo explosion. Feeding giving medication all laborious. They're at home now but it's fairly imminent that there will be no option but a care home as the person providing care to date has deteriorated themselves.