...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

cultures where it is the norm for elderly relatives to be cared for within the extended family differ from modern societies in significant ways:
they lack the healthcare and the resources to keep elderly people alive for extended periods so they do not develop the complex needs that we see in this country
The ratio of older people to younger people is very different almost the inverse of what we have, far fewer elderly people, far more young people available to care for them

if you are part of a tradditional culture and you take on the care of an elderly person you can be reasonably sure that they will become ill and fade away quickly, in this country because of advanced medical technology we can keep people alive for much longer and so you are starting on a years long journey which will result in the complete breakdown of your own mental and physical health

Not read the whole thread yet but my first thought is that it's women who ended up doing this in the past and it basically took over/ruined their lives.
It's gets dressed up as this lovely fluffy community minded, family orientated thing to do but the reality is that it's hard and strains childhood and marriages and is basically dumping the shit work on women.

I am a sahm and even without the stress of having to balance ft work, there's no way I could have done this for ILs. I love my own fantastic parents and would do my best but I don't think I could do care for someone with dementia and I don't believe my parents would want me to. I don't want this from my own children - my dream for them is that they live happy lives. Looking after an elderly, sick parent will just ruin their lives.
Doing a bit of shopping, running them to appointments, cleaning up the house is fine. Anything more, not fine if you can avoid it.

I think pressure is put on any Sibling who is unmarried and nearby to look after Elderly Parents.
My Sister has a family and lives down South .
Our Parents are fairly independant at rhe moment and both still drive.

tit is ok if grown up Children are fit ans healthy themselves but what if they are not fit themselves. Its a tough one certainly.

I took care of my mother in her declining years, and with the best will in the world, she needed far more care than one person could give towards the end (despite hints from the hospital that it would be so much easier if I gave up my career and took her off their hands.....) but the thing which sticks in my memory is that, when she was finally admitted to a ward, a team of five people manouvered her gently into bed, with the benefit of professional training and equipment. She could have been spared a deal of indignity and discomfort if she had been admitted sooner.
Ironically, when she was younger and fitter, she had expressed a wish to go into a home when she couldn't cope (having seen for herself what care for a previous elderly generation was like - not at all as we imagine "the good old days"!) But as she grew more infirm, she became more resistant to leaving her familiar surroundings, until it was quite impossible.

@MidweekObscurity
Ah yes, I forgot. Of course that’s because teenagers don’t need parenting. Yeh, right.

Yes, it certainly is interesting. Perhaps her dh will find work closer to home. Just because a person’s salary out of a couple doesn’t cover childcare, it doesn’t mean they have to give up work. The childcare costs are effectively split.

@HandsOffMyRights
Ha ha stick it in your diary. If her dh doesn’t want to be controlled and she doesn’t change her ways, op may be divorced by then anyway. 😬

One thing I would like to add is this thread has been interesting and sad. I have read every post. Despite the monotonous drivel from op, I see so much love, humanity, pain and suffering. So I think for this reason it has been a very worthwhile thread. Everyone.

OP's idea of her caring for her elderly parents consists of her DH being a SAHD (to look after the children they don't have), whilst being on hand if there is anything parents need, after home carers have come in 3 or 4 times a day. OP will pop by once a week to do the gardening. Believe me gardening is well down on the list of priorities. So, in effect, OP states that everyone should care for their elderly parents yet she has no intention of caring for hers. A reality check is needed!

All the people on this thread talking about choices of caring for family/homes/carers coming in may be in for a horrible shock when they find out just how awful the elder care system is in the UK and how little help they will get.

The state does not provide, except for those without a house or much in the way of savings, social care say for dementia. It is not classed as a health-care need. If you are very very lucky or your poor relative is really sick you might get carers coming in twice a day for a short period of time then going away again. The old person is often left in nappies, or vulnerable to falls- there's about a million old people in the UK who have inadequate care.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/04/peers-call-for-extra-8bn-to-tackle-social-care-scandal

If you don't want you or your parents to have inadequate care, and get bed sores, falls, broken bones. be sitting in their own wee til the evening carers arrive, then you might have to think about caring for them.

Also, to access this care/homes, you need to get the older person to agree to it and get any house sold, arrange carers yourself- and if they have capacity they may not agree!

It's not as simple as 'go into a home' these days, if there was amazing 24/7 care with loving great attendants on hand all the time, everyone would choose that. That isn't the choice which is why many people end up doing their best at home for their parents, knowing what the alternative is. Unless you are very very wealthy, the absence of a social care plan will affect us all.

It's very rock and a hard place isn't it
Are we all supposed to Sacrifice our wellbeing, our chances of reaching a ripe old age to keep the generation above us alive for as long as possible?
It's like Saturn devouring his children

You don’t need to sell the home if the persons spouse is still living there. But if the savings are low enough to qualify fo LA funding, the person’s pension (old age and a large proportion of private) is counted towards the fees. This can make it very difficult for the person still at home even if their income is low enough to claim state benefits.

In my experience homes do their best on the whole but are seriously underfunded. However for people with complex dementia etc whose family cannot physically lift them for example, care in their own home is not a viable option. This is the situation we are currently in.

I’d rather poke my eyes out than have anything to do with my dad and step mum.

Wolfff yes, it's really hard. I know someone who is 80 caring for someone who is 85, the house is not being sold but they don't have the money for care fees (but have enough not to qualify for free). She is beside herself with the stress of trying to care for her elderly husband when she is elderly herself.

I think there are two issues here. One is providing actual care (intimate hygiene and hoisting and so forth) for someone who can't live alone. I presume most of us agree that that is best provided by the professionals (funds permitting! You're talking £1K per week, minimum).
But I'm going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume she was meaning the lower-level care, "good-neighbourly" type stuff, of visiting, trips out, organising or facilitating shopping, cleaning, DIY and medical appointments that can mean an elderly person can remain, semi-independently, in their own homes for as long as possible.
That is clearly much more manageable if you live close by, but a fair few of those tasks can be set up remotely. And bear in mind also, that once someone is living in a care home, there are still plenty of ways that they benefit from family support.
My dad is on end-of-life palliative care now, and receives massive amounts of care from the home staff, but family are here every day too, to support him emotionally.

This thread has been an interesting read and made me feel MUCH better about my caring responsibilities.

I am in my late 30s, I have two kids - one school age and one in nursery, a full time professional job and a husband who works away about 60% of the time.

I also have elderly parents - both late 80s. One has complex physical disability with cognitive impairment, a rare benign tumour that affects essential hormone production and various other health issues. Lives at home with 4 care visits a day by 2 carers. In-dwelling catheter, fully hoisted transfers, chair or bed bound. Absolutely no understanding of the modern world. The other has age related physical issues, also an indwelling catheter, dementia, depression and cateracts, lives in a care home and is unpleasant to everyone. They are both attention seeking and loathe each other after 60 years of a crappy marriage. They have lots of money

I have several siblings, no-one lives close by. Most of use have school age children.

I am LPA to both for health and finance as is one of my brothers.

My week usually includes:

• school/nursery drop off/pick up (schedule constraint)
• work (flexible but demanding)
• managing my own home (flexible but takes time)
• sorting out homework, extra curricular activities, spending quality time with my kids, feeding them
• commuting
• fielding the 15+ phone calls a day from the parent with relatively mild dementia and the several a day from the one living at home who is bored
• liaising with two sets of GPs, the domicilliary dentist, the district nurses, the care home, the care agency, the cleaner, the gardener, the four lots of current hospital departments, patient transport, the social care team
• liaising with the tax accountant, the IFA, their 4 banks and 20+ investment vehicles, doing tax returns, paying all the bills, arranging insurances and utilities, making their charity donations, making their gifts, buying any additional things they need (the cleaner shops), making their birthday gifts to grandchildren, paying the paper bil (has to be in person...), topping the pre-paid debit card for the cleaner to use, dealing with home repairs
• feeling guilty because I'm doing a half-arsed job at work but can't afford to drop hours
• feeling guilty that I'm doing a half-arsed job as a parent
• feeling guilty that I'm doing a less than half arsed job as a spouse
• worrying about all the above

Which means I now pay £200 a month to a psychologist and take anti-depressants and the occasional sleeping pill because I am clinically at the edge of a breakdown.

Not least because all of the above doesn't take into account my MIL who lives 8 hours drive away in the middle of nowhere and needs a hip replacement. Or my sister with breast cancer. Or the sibling who committed suicide. Or the sibling whose son died of cancer. Or the nephew with MS. Or, or, or...LIFE in general

So I can't, won't and don't want to spend any more of my time and energy on "care" as defined by the OP because I don't have any more time and energy.

Exactly twopups she has this idyllic notion of pottering to appts, doing a bit of shopping and gardening when we know the reality is often much more grim and very time consuming.

People like my DH who would emigrate now despite his DF being 77 without remotely thinking through how his parents would manage in a few years if they need help.
OP and this is the man you’ve decided is going to be a SAHD and full time carer for his parents????
Bwahahahshaha!! Good luck with that!

Carrot Hope OP reads your post. Just who looks after you?

Carrot, that sounds so hard

People like my DH who would emigrate now despite his DF being 77 without remotely thinking through how his parents would manage in a few years if they need help.
So, isn't your own DH exactly the kind of person you're railing against in your OP then? Clearly cares so little for his parents (according to your guidelines) that he would up and emigrate and leave them to it, without a care in the world.

DH is very good and my siblings help where they can. My parents were fairly crappy parents as they are both very self-absorbed and put most of their energy into their marital war BUT even if they were the best parents in the world there is physically only so much time.

Every single engagement with a company, service, health care etc takes 5 times as long to deal with when you have to explain about why you're ringing and no the account holder can't come to the branch/surgery/optician, and no they don't know their security details, and then the person you're speaking to insists they can't talk to anyone but the account holder even though you've registered the LPA with them and so you need to escalate to a manager and then be transferred to the legal team who confirm the LPA but can't transfer you back so you have to start again...

For everything. Every time

Every time my Mum has a hospital appointment I have to go through 30 odd eligibility questions for patient transport even though her condition is stable. It's never 'have anything changed since the last time you used the service?'

We hope we will inherit their house as they have spoken to us about us moving in to care for them (they brought up the conversation, not us).

Be careful about agreeing to this. You could end up overwhelmed and this could go very wrong for you.

I'm afraid you can't stop people from thinking you're selfish for making those choices.

Your fear of being "selfish" or having other people imagine that you are "selfish" could get you into deep waters. You don't seem to have much insight into your own likely future needs or other people's.

Don't be too driven by ideals and what "should" happen and what people "should" do. Your brother who says he will not do what you plan to do, might being honest and realistic rather than selfish. As your parents get older you and your sibling(s) will need to negotiate some practical care plans for them between you. You will probably have to compromise your ideals and compromise with him/them so that your parents' needs are met without overwhelming any of you. Calling each other selfish is not going to help.

@TwoPupsandaHamster
That did make me chortle.

@CarrotVan
When I read posts like yours, I think really op can eff off. Looks like she has. I know what it feels like to be on the edge. Keep talking to your psychologist about self care. Maybe start by refusing to take the umpteen calls from your parents for starters. This is very bad for your emotional well-being. Let them go to voicemail and have an allotted time / day when you listen to them.

I call screen massively @mummyoflittledragon. Currently have 59 voicemails from my parent with dementia

😱🌷🌷

Carrot That's near enough the same position I was in. First my mum was diagnosed with dementia. Dad couldn't cope so mum came to live with me and my children (and foster children). It was manageable to begin with. Then mum was diagnosed with cancer. Her dementia became a whole lot worse..... She died of cancer. Shortly after mums death dad was diagnosed with dementia and later, alzheimers. We, as a family, did our very best to care for him in his own home until it became impossible.

3 of us "children" put our lives on hold. There is no doubt our children suffered. There is no choice really. Social Services say they are there for support but they aren't really. I had no choice than to give up fostering, once my last fostered sibling group moved on to their adoptive placements.

After 8 years of caring for dad, and a battle with SS, dad was, eventually, placed in a care home suited to his needs. He was really happy in his care home. Sadly he died, earlier this year, following a heart attack. He was 88. Us "children" cared for him solely from age 80. We did our absolute best for him. Our children have suffered, our family has split and 3 of us have lost our jobs, because of the pressure of caring for an elderly parent with alzheimers.

More and more people are living longer now. With that comes more and more elderly "conditions". Dementia/Alzheimer's is so bloody cruel!

My mum did very little for her mum even though she only lived 5 mins away and practically raised us. She has done fuck all for us since having DC. She has provided unpaid childcare for my siblings so I will let the burden fall on them when the time comes and ignore their whining about my selfishness.