...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

The first paragraph is a quote. I don't know how to bold it!

My grandmother helped one of her daughters run a nursing home. She made all her daughters promise that if she needed care she should get it in a care home.

She got dementia in her 80s and she lived in a ground floor flat at the time, carers came in and various relatives visited on a regular basis.

BUT she would forget whether she had eaten so when the cook came she would say she wanted a sandwich.

She went into a care home while the council refitted the kitchen, in the care home she would be told it's lunch time, we have X Y or Z, what would you like? So she started eating better and always seemed happy when I visited, even if she didn't know who I was.

She didn't return to her flat.

NRTFT.. but does the OP have children? How old is OP also?

Caring for elderly parents, while raising your own children and working at the same time as you are in, say your 50s, sounds nigh on impossible.

My own nan lived until 99. My poor mother was trying to look after her in her home. My mother was 70 when nan died.

How many 99 year olds still have children fit and able to care for them?

Prattling on about superior other cultures is not helpful. Attitudes to the elderly are more respectful yes but also bring their own issues of autonomy and independence and are often disadvantageous for women. Extended families can work in a setting where the societal infrastructure allows it to thrive. It's very difficult to emulate that in a western setting. Faced with the lifestyle here families from those cultures face the same issues as everyone else: Jobs, incomes, distance, smaller families (so less adults to share the workload), other commitments and responsibilities, health... Just Google Asian care homes. There are plenty and they exist because there is a demand.

I'm from another culture and yes the idea that everyone shares the workload is bollocks. All that happens is the lionshare of the workload will fall to the designated skivvy (usually a woman/women in the family). Often they are the daughters in law and not any more equipped or willing than anyone else on this thread.

As human beings we mostly try to do the right thing by our loved ones (I think that's a fair generalisation) but confronted with all the complex challenges attached to providing care (as described in harrowing detail by some in this thread) regardless of culture we're all in the same boat. No one has it sussed. Stop with the divisive comments.

@Handsoffmyrights
37 going on 10.
No kids. Don’t think she’s even pregnant. Possibly ttc but would be very new according to posters who have said she was thinking of it in a recent thread. Her dh will be sahd and do most of the caring. All of it during the week as she’s out daily from 7.30-8 iirc. Although she thinks she will perhaps do some stuff before or after her 3 hour commute. This will ensure they inherit the house they may still need to sell for the ils care because her dh doesn’t have a pension. 😂😂

Did I miss anything??

A lot of us just don't have the resources to deal with this.

My mum is in her 80s and fortunately is still fit and healthy. If she were to become immobile I wouldn't be able to look after her. We live 150 miles away in a 2 bed terrace with one bathroom accessible via a spiral staircase.

We couldn't relocate as dh and I both work full time, the children are both at local schools (one secondary, one at primary), one of them about to take GCSEs.

A lot of families live like this and can't just take in an extra person or up sticks and relocate.

@HandsOffMyRights
In my case it's 40, my divorced mum has dementia and I have a 3yo & a toddler, my siblings are all younger than me.
We have to offload some of the caring responsibility as frankly it's impossible to give her the care she needs (she needs feeding and occupying all her waking moments) and look after the kids, sort out schooling and earn a living and not to mention that we have a settled life 300 miles away from her but due to her dementia it's very hard to move her to a new place.

Thanks Mummy.

Will revisit this thread in say 15 years and see if it all goes to plan .

In places where it is traditional for the elderly to be cared for at home almost always women providing (unpaid) care.

Wonky

That sounds tough
Sorry you're all going through that.

Too right children should look after their elderly parents. It's vile that this is not the norm in this country

I bet many here are happy for you to take on care of their abusive parent since it's "so vile" its not the norm

Not every other culture that has more compassion and respect for parents is also sexist towards women.

Very few cultures are not sexist. Fact.

Recently I read a piece about a society where women hold the power, and inheritance, and even then the main problem was that women were expected to be around the family and rarely went out to get jobs or careers.

I'm not expecting to provide care for my parents. I live at a distance and my sister is near them and currently helps them at the same level they helped my close by paternal gm at (maternal gm in a different country). We also do not have a good relationship in the slightest.

I am expecting to provide care for my close by ILs though, or at least share that with DH. BIL lives at a distance too and it's more likely his ILs will need care sooner. And SIL (BILs wife) sibling lives at a distance from them nearer his ILs.

If something changes in these scenarios I don't expect any of us to be so rigid we won't change anything but that's where we all are at the moment with only relatively minor care being needed.

When I last visited my mother to take her out for a walk, she had soiled herself so spectacularly that she had 3 staff sorting her out : 2 to get her stripped, washed and dressed (she has no more idea how to cooperate with this than a small baby, but she weighs 10 stone and is pretty strong and pinchy) and one to clean the room.

Not really something my 80 year old dad could handle. Or even me, with the job and the kids and all.

I believe OP thinks this won’t be an issue until she has teenagers who will be entirely self sufficient- because teenagers don’t need parenting anymore.

I had a good relationship with my parents and on paper at least, would have been happy to care for them. My dad died quickly and was fully active up until about 6 weeks before his death. No problems there. My mum however had dementia and I really struggled with it. She did weird and wonderful things and became deeply unpleasant to be around. I just wanted my mum back and despite lots of reading up on it, I just couldn’t say the right things and frequently ended up winding her up rather than calming her down. I am an only child so no support and as a single parent, would have had to give up work to care for her.

I still feel guilty I couldn’t care for her. More so because an accident in the home I put her in killed her. But putting her in a home was the right thing to do for me and my family at that time and enabled me to support my own family, keep saving for my own retirement and ensure my mum was cared for. Had she lived with me, I’d have had to stop supporting and saving and the frustration and upset for me would likely have cost me my mental health. My children probably would have gone to live with their dad. You shouldn’t judge until you’ve been there.

I think this is a personal choice within the family. Some feel it’s their duty, some want to and some don’t.
My parents never expected me to look after them until the ere in their 80s and became ill and frail. I lived a few miles away and used to visit every couple of weeks, sometimes weekly. Mum was in early stages of Alzheimer’s at that point. Then one day we went and it was obvious dad was ill and asked my daughter if he could take her up on her offer of taking him shopping.
It all went downhill from there and as I was in a position to help them daily, I took on the role of carer. Making sure they ate and had a hot meal every day (because dad had stopped cooking) made sure they took any meds, did the cleaning, shopping and dealt with finances. (My daughter got POA at request of dad). My selfish brother wouldn’t agree to any kind of rota, he went in when HE wanted so sometimes we’d overlap. So I went in every day.
This went on for about 2 1/2 years and dad sadly died. By then we realised mum couldn’t be left alone and I had to move in with her which was impractical.
I got her into a day centre so I could at least go home sometimes and do things I needed to and go out.
Then it became too much, because she wasn’t a sweet little old lady that took the care and was grateful. She caught against me every step of the way, keeping me up all night, going out at night and wandering, arguing and was very aggressive, so we had to look for a home for her.
It took a while to settle but she’s happy enough.
I had to do this for my own sanity.

Too right children should look after their elderly parents. It's vile that this is not the norm in this country

I tried to look after my mum. Pleaded with her to stay in my home when she was recovering from major surgery, but despite always telling me this would be my role and to kill her before letting her go I to a nursing home (), when the time came she refused all help. She was horrible to me actually insisting I didn't understand and that all she wanted was to be in a home. Now she's better she's on about not going into a home again and trying to make me promise I'll never let that happen etc...

If you want (feel duty to) look after a parent and they won't accept, and they threaten suicide over being with you, and are horrible to you, what are you supposed to do? Is it still 'vile' not to have them live with you, even if they blankly refuse???

My mum died very young (47). My dad is now 70 and lives with his partner 200 miles away. While I would definitely want to look after him if he needed me to, I'm not sure I could move my family 200 miles to do so and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want me to. I've told my kids to put me in a home - I didn't bring them into the world to become a burden to them! It certainly shouldn't be an expectation

@Mummyoflittledragon, very good summary, but also no elderly care will be needed until DC are teenagers. And teenagers shouldn't have much parental input.

I think it's interesting how the DH has a career he loves (physical trainer), but his earnings don"t cover childcare so he will SAHD. Something MN regularly caution women against. Hopefully he at least claims Child Benefit to cover his NI, and OP doesn't begrudge the tax due on it.

Lots of good feedback already. What can I add? Well, even without dementia, if you don’t have an easy relationship now with a parent, ageing and illness is not going to make it better. It’s not going to give you common ground or make you accept each other’s values. It’s going to make it harder. Increased frequency of visits or living with someone is stressful. My own parents lurch from crisis to crisis. They are not cognitively impaired, they just have different values and want to live their lives the way they wish. All well and good when they don’t require me to facilitate that. A couple of examples, tutting and rolling eyes whenever a nonwhite person appears - this can be on the tv or on a hospital ward. I don’t want my KS1 child consistently exposed to that. Refusing any outside help. Their prerogative but this creates problems for me like being the only source of transport to support hospital visits and having an hour added on to journey times as I have to drive past the place I need to get them to pick them up. Older people are likely to be more distant from the world of work and childcare. My
parents have little appreciation of what it is like to have little free time. I can’t clean my own house properly or sort the garden out. How on earth could I cope with doing theirs too? I find being with them for long periods stressful so I do what I can when I am able. A recent episode that included my KS1 child being involved in an emergency and seeing some distressing things developed in to a 3 month crisis that almost broke
me. I can’t change the way they think/behave so I ignore it. I couldn’t do that 24/7. I am sad and anxious about the future.

I'm sorry OP but you sound naive at best. A lot of your comments are embarrassingly ignorant and unpleasantly judgemental. I don't think you are well placed to comment on what should happen in other people's families.

a) You don't have even one child yet. You have no idea of the responsibilities and pressures that come with raising children. You are entirely wrong that teenagers don't need too much parental input. In some ways they need much more than younger children.

b) You have no experience of care or any profession where you regularly come into contact with the elderly and unwell. You have no idea of the responsibilities and pressures that may come with care of the elderly.

c) Your DH will apparently become a SAHD. The majority of families have two working parents.

d) There are many shades of grey in human relationships.
Abuse would be the most extreme example of appalling behaviour but many people were mildly neglected as children, some don't get on as adults at all for various reasons or have a relationships that deteriorates after marriage/ children for whatever reason, other parents choose to retire abroad or hundreds of miles away because it suits them on retirement and don't necessarily think of plans for when they become elderly. Relationships are a two way street and you often reap what you sow. Many elderly parents in my experience (I do have quite a lot of experience) wish to continue to make their own choices, some of which are not considered very wise or potentially unsafe by their children/ health care professionals. Sometimes, they choose to ignore the fact that their health will deteriorate and bury their heads in the sand instead of planning for this. These choices potentially impact negatively upon their children and others.
Overall, there are so many complexities and individual situations that it is ridiculous to make generalisations.

OP I'm from another culture. Many of whom came to the UK as immigrants leaving their elderly parents back home to be cared for by others. My mum has died from dementia and dad is going the same way with Parkinson's and incontinence on top. It's a nightmare. Working full time, 3 dc and sick parents. I do what I can but I'm only human. Other cultures put the burden on unmarried daughters or daughter in laws who are likely working jobs too. It's a nice sentiment but the reality is tough

My mum often tells me of how her grandad was brought to live with them as a child for the last few years of his life. He had dementia and slowly worsened. He was forever getting lost, and was often angry and occasionally violent. Because of this experience she has always said to me and my brother to put her in a care home should needs arise as she wouldn't want us or her grandchildren to be put in the position she was as a child. I feel the same and will tell my kids the same. If it's more minor things like helping with shopping or just taking them out occasionally, that's fair enough if you're local, but once a parent gets to a point where they need a carer I don't think most people would be able to do the job properly anyway!