...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

by the time elderly parents are in a state to need active caring for, they are usually in a state that does not allow the carer to do much else

as people live longer they often spend many years in a very poor state indeed- either confused or severely disabled: what would have killed you 100 years ago can leave you alive and dependent for decades

imagine being unable to take your sick child to hospital because you can't leave your bedridden or confused parent alone

or, less dramatically, imagine not being able to take your child to school, to the dentist, to any activities at all, obviously not hold down a job or go on holiday- because at home there is a person who can never, ever be left

imagine being afraid that your confused parent is going to set the house on fire or be violent towards your children (I have a relative who works with dementia patients- physical assault is common)

imagine having to lift a heavy paralysed person several times a day without training or proper equipment because the hoist required won't fit into a normal house- imagine having to do that on your own until your back gives way and you end up disabled yourself

and if you yourself are older and no longer a young parent, then remember that this is likely to affect your ability to care for your relative

I am 55: caring for a disabled, slim teenager left me with a prolapse and back trouble

if I had had to do the same with my heavy MIL (who was paralysed from the waist down for the last 7 years or so of her life), I reckon I might have lasted a few weeks before I needed a carer of my own

while she was in this situation, I had two children at home, one of them disabled and in need of frequent hospital treatment

there is no way our small semi could have accommodated her needs: staircase too narrow, hallways too narrow; we couldn't even have got the hoist required to lift her onto the commode (and requiring 2 people to work it every time she needed to go) up the stairs

The parent child v child parent dynamic is complex /grand parent /other relatives

Lots of different experiences

It's difficult to explain until you have been in certain situations...that's part of the cycle of life

Most people want the best for their family, but families can be complex

The other thing I've found interesting on this thread is the number of people caring for their in laws. Is that not their in laws children's job, ie their partner? Why do some people take responsibility for this?

Perhaps because some people love their in laws and believe them to be part of their family?

I looked after my mum for a 2 year period after dad died, she came to live with me as a totally independent person, but her deterioration was swift and couldnt have been foreseen. It messed with my head but I couldnt imagine not looking after her. I dont turn my back on family. Additionally, she left me well provided for and had previously contributed to our house purchase. We fought like cat and dog, she was forever telling me to f. Off. Funny now but not then. She had a rare neurological disorder that I took her to 3 neurologists before we got the diagnosis which wasnt good. Her last days were traumatic, she kept choking, as she had lost her swallow reflex and I had to make the decision with the dr if to discontinue treatment. For months I had flashbacks to this. She was a difficult lady, she made me miserable when I was growing up, but I cared for her and loved her. I was also aware that she had refused to do the caring for my grandma. But I know it was the right thing to do, she needed me, there was only me, and I have a clear conscience. Children should look after their parents IF it feels like the right thing to do.

But at the end of the day, they are not their parents. Isn't the ultimate responsibility if there is any, down to their children. Are Some dils too quick to help and do it for them?

I know some people who have been caring for their relatives for 30+ years

Not everyone has the capability to do this !

Why would it bother you @TabbyMumz?

Tabby We're a team. My DH would drive 200 miles if my parents needed one of us and I couldn't get there. If my DH had to use all of his annual leave on medical appointments, meeting SS, getting specialist equipment installed etc, he would have no holiday left for a break with DD & I Of course we share responsibilities, we're a family not just with our DD but with both sets of parents.

@alsohuman....i guess I just find it interesting how some people do this and was curious as to why. I didn't care for my in law's when they needed care, I didn't see that it was my responsibility. My partner couldn't due to various reasons, so I saw that the responsibility went to his siblings, not to me.

Frankly OP your view is either incredibly naive (in which case you have a hell of a shock waiting) or you genuinely define your worth by putting others down.

I work in the care industry now after years if frontline substance misuse and mental health work and I've seen a wide gamut of different circumstances

Now we often discuss how horrifically difficult it is for family to take caring responsibilities. The emotional and physical toll is far beyond anything you can imagine from your statements.

Plus it's a well known factor that our generation ( a bit of an assumption there I guess but I'm 40 to give an idea) for various reasons as a wider group have had children older in some cases....so the caring overlaps. There are only so many hours in the day and we often see family trying to juggle young ish children and elderly parents. Sometimes you have to make that choice.....if you haven't had to choose then consider yourself lucky.

Also this will be controversial but as older people develop more and more needs actual training is genuinely required to deliver certain care. Now I'm a big believer in family being offered that training but they are mostly not offered it or refused it. I've seen several times injuries or safeguarding not because a family member didn't care....but because they don't know how to use a hoist properly or the start of a pressure sore.

Now I grant you that is partly the fault of the system of family carer support but I've sat in front of people who are devastated as they accidentally hurt a loved family member and I wouldn't wish that guilt on another living soul.

I know you think you are being a saint and " doing the right thing " but I'll tell you after 22 years dealing with people in varying degrees of need or pain...the right thing is the hard one and is rarely the one that people will pat you on the back and tell you what a wonderful person you are.

The right thing is to consider that people have different lives and different pressures and that you have absolutely no right in the slightest to judge because be very careful.....I've seen the highest and mightiest fall from their perch if righteousness.

The higher the pedestal the harder you fall. Until you have truly been there and genuinely cared for an older relative with all the horrible stuff, the personal care , the possible decline into dementia you have zero right to judge.

Let others live their lives and don't be too sure you wont end up with the same difficult heart rending decisions

@Hoghgyni...I guess there's a difference though between doing the odd thing for them, like take a day off to get equipment installed, and caring for them a lot. I was thinking more along the lines of the dil doing the bulk of the work, whilst the son, not so much.

My mum cared for her (late 70s, vascular dementia) mother at home as long as possible. She had carers 5 times a day and visits from my mum in between until it became impossible - about a year. That was 5 years ago and my mum is still in therapy for the guilt and awfulness that was being her mother's carer, of having to bathe her while she screamed in her face that she hated her and wished she'd never been born, of finding photos of herself with the face scribbled out, of watching her mother fade from consciousness before her eyes and end up doubly incontinent and unable to talk. My mum was so desperate to do the right thing by my grandma and it emotionally destroyed her - she has since said that should she need ANY type of personal care, dementia or not, she wants either carers or to go into a home. She isn't willing to let me or my sibling go through what she did.

I’d never want DD to look after me in my old age. I want her to have a wonderful free life without burden of my care. Sadly I’m not sure how a society can manage like that but if we are talking about ‘want’ then I can firmly say I don’t ‘want’ her to have to do that.

Im quite happy to say that i wont. I love my parents but living with them now woul be unbearable let alone when they are elderly and need more. Our relationship would deteriorate. Likewise they arent shy about saying they'd never want to live with any of us (well possibly my younger sister as she's most like them but that's not fair on her) but still they like their space from us. They've already told us (based on gp) what their dos and donts are when looking for a home.

We don't take from them and encourage all money to spent or saved by them not dolled out. Equally dh and i plan to do the same for our kids, so they don't have the burden or have to make decisions for us.

My PIL don't bother with us much so we won't be helping them and they live to far away anyway.

But it's all moot as dh and i will need to work until in our 70s anyway which means they'll be long gone by the time we could help and we'd be the ones needing it. Hence saving for our own homes/carers when we can.

From the sounds of things the 'complicating factors' you talk of OP take the number of people who could actually care for their parents adequately down to very small numbers.

Excellent post Shinyletsbebadguys

Imagine this scenario- both you and DH are only children, both sets of parents are divorced and remarried = 8 parents. As adults you have mainly been left by 6 of those people to struggle, get left to your own devices from a fairly young age and generally not been bothered. Not neglectful or abusive as such. Those 8 parents are over 2 counties although you live near-ish some. How do you choose who to help? How do you live your own life? We only have one life. I'm terrified of making these choices and the only way I can see to make those choices is to prioritise my own happiness and my own children's happiness.

Tabby I can't speak for any other family. We've always had to juggle our diaries for family stuff. I can honestly say that I have never taken a day off work to care for our DD if she has been poorly, as the nature of my job makes that impossible, whereas it's slightly easier for me to take planned days. We believe that we have 4 parents between us rather than pigeon holing them into his & mine.

If you love someone, you love them @TabbyMumz, you don’t have to be related to them by blood. At least my husband doesn’t think so, he was a rock when my parents needed care.

@Graphista totally agree I posted before i read the thread.

@Alsohuman....I just didnt see it as my place to step in (with my inlaws) and not my responsibility, when there are other siblings.

@hoghgyni We've never seen it as having 4 parents between us, mine are mine, and his are his. Not to say we wouldn't help each other out with the odd thing, but I definitely see his parents as being his and his siblings responsibility and mine are mine and my siblings responsibility.

I think with the ageing population and later retirement age, many women will find themselves in a situation where, just when they're about done raising their children, it's time to care for elderly relatives, and still pay the bills and work a normal job. This would mean sacrificing much of their own quality of life while they're still young enough to enjoy it.

My own parents are adamant they don't want me wiping their bottoms and would rather enter a care home than place such a burden on me and my siblings. I'd always want to take an active role in any help they may need, but I'm so grateful for their stance, and I plan to be as generous towards my own children. I had kids knowing exactly what that entailed, and that was my choice. My kids will have to do their same for their own children. I didn't have kids so they can 'repay' me by running ragged after me when I'm 90 and they're 60.

I think also now smaller family sizes mean it is harder when one sibling moves away. And lack of jobs in some places does make it difficult. I think people should think about this when they get older as well (ie consider moving close to children - if agreed - when they are still young enough to make friends and form a new community).

My aunt and her brother probably looked selfish. Hell their sister shouted it out whenever she could. I know her friends and colleagues assumed they were.

What she didn't mention was that she martyred herself for a very ill mum with declining dementia. She was extremely selfish and put her want, to sell her mums place and have her move in, to not have her go in a home and feel guilty above what daunt mum actually needed.

My aunt and her brother refused to pay for carers in the end and instead to share the cost of a home (once house funds dried up).. daunt mum was dangerous and sometimes cruel. She once deliberately handled gc newborns bottles and dummys after purposefully putting her hands down the bin. She also wandered out naked in the street and made the kids, daunts dniece and nephew, really upset with comments.

So daunt and her brother refused to pay carers to force their hand and luckily in the end (after a near fire) were able to get their mum into a care home. Where she is happier and calmer.

But speak to her sister and you hear about her shitty siblings who did nothing, gave nothing and left their mum to rot.

You only ever hear what people tell you, that's not always the truth. Even from friends and family.

Basically op thinks that you should care for you parents, Unless you cant (cant being only her definition of cant)

Thinks kids will be totally unaffected by not ever being able to spend time with both their parents. Unaffected by parents focussing on care of the elderly and if they need attention or help past 13, it means they arent independent enough and should just get on with it.

But also says That the care will actually fall to her dh, who will also be a sahd, because despite working nearly 12 hours a day he doesnt earn alot. Because she also works long days and as the main wage earner will find that difficult to reduce. That dh will be fine looking after the kid/s and spending weekends doing the the majority of their garden, shopping, odd jobs, cleaning etc as well as childcare and looking after their own house.

She also think she knows everything about parenting, despite not having kids and not planning on spending and awful lot of time with the planned child. Because she will be stopping in on her commute home several nights a week and also helping out with their weekend care.

Oh and the dh doesnt need a pension because he will inherit his parents house. That it wont go on care fees because they will all live together and doesnt understand what deprivation of assets means. It's all going to be hunky dorey. Unless they split up obviously, because then her dh will get main care of the kids and OP will have to work, pay her own bills and have to care for her mother herself, and pay CMS and make sure she focuses on the kids when she has them. Divorce happens, unfortunately, and OP will find her good intentions come to nothing if that happens.

She also thinks because she says she (or rather her doing a bit with dh doing most) will provide care for in laws and her own mother, that this makes her morally superior despite the fact that she hasnt actually done any care and is volunteering her dh for most of it.

Morally superior to people who have done it once and know they cant do it again.

I mean I can say I will give every mner £1000 if I win the lottery. Does that make me better than anyone else? I have no idea if I will be in that position or if I will actually give anyone any money. But as long as I say it, it makes me a better person?

But it's ok, because Op will just add her reasons to her acceptable list of reasons why someone cant care for their parents.

If OP was young, I would get the attitude of being naive and thinking you know everything. But at 37? Really?