...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

OP I think the reason some posters are having a hard time with what you're saying is that they perhaps have been unable to provide care for dearly loved relatives (for a multitude of reasons which have been outlined here) & your lack of understanding for what it entails & insisting it is possible, is a bit belittling to their experiences.

In the same way that a lot of us have much younger siblings so have experience of babies/children before becoming parents. We then realise when we have our own children, that we really didn't have a clue what it entails despite seeing someone else doing it. Seeing snippets of someone else do something is very different from doing it 24/7 yourself. Equally, if you have only NT children, it would be inappropriate to feel you were in a position to give parenting advice on issues a parent raising a child with specialist needs was facing. In the same way that just because you've had one experience with your mother caring for your grandmother, doesn't mean it is the same as someone else's experience where the relative has different issues and needs.

But if the ones you love refuse to go into a home because they want to stay in their own home as long as possible...then what

Then you get your wish of being full time carer for your elderly parents. Do you know even an 80 year old man in the late stages of alzheimers cannot be forced to go into a care home against his wishes. He will be offered care visits 3x a day, which he has to pay for.

Visit 1 - early morning for 15 mins. In that time the carer has to get him out of bed, ensure he gets dressed, washed and shaved and make his breakfast. He will become extremely angry that someone has intruded into his home, he won't want anyone in the bathroom with him and he won't want someone else choosing fresh, clean clothes for him. He will insist on putting on the clothes he tipped his dinner down yesterday. He will fight with the person who is making his breakfast and can become quite violent. Carer will make his breakfast (cereal) and a cup of tea. These will still be on the table at lunchtime, when meals on wheels arrive with his lunch - because he has forgotten to eat them!

Visit 2. Carer to arrive at lunchtime to ensure client has eaten his lunchtime meal. Not always possible and lunchtime meal is still on the table when evening carer calls.

Visit 3. Carer calls to say dad hasn't eaten his lunch.... Again. She doesn't have time to make him anything as she is only scheduled for 15 mins. Plus he doesn't want to get in the shower or into his pj's (who would at 6pm???)

Over to you OP. Also in- between carers the alarm on your app goes off to let you know your dad has left his house. How long will it take you to go and find him - because he doesn't have a clue who he is or where he lives.

Then there's the all night calls. He doesn't know his name but he will be able to find your name on his phone and call you - all through the night because he thinks it's daytime, because he has his day clothes on.

Then there's the never ending gp, dental, hospital, support group visits. Because a person with dementia needs, you know... Help to get there. And elderly people need lots of apnts.

Forget taking your children out for the day. You will get a call from one of the carers, neighbours or police, with a problem they need you, as his next of kin, to deal with immediately.

I can't believe you have no experience of parenting children/teens or caring for an elderly person yet as so quick to tell those who have great experience how to do it! And how simple it is!

OP I hope you never have to deal with this. But part of me hopes you do... Just to give you some perspective of what caring for your elderly parents, whilst juggling work and your own family entails.

Caring for an elderly relative does not consist of you going out to work from early morning until evening with a quick call to see him for a chat every now and again, whilst you leave the actual 'caring' to somebody else.

Well thank you OP, you have now brought back all the guilt I felt when I had to place my mum in a care home. I used to work full time but spent 2 hours travelling each weekend to do mum's shopping and cleaning. Took time off work to take her for appointments , sometimes travelling 200 miles in a day. When I retired she came to live with me, but she became immobile after a spell in hospital. There was no way I could get her in and out of a chair let alone bed. so I found a lovely care home and in her last months a wonderful nursing home. So please do not judge those of us who cannot care for our parents.

FIL developed dementia. We lived close by (5 minutes walk) When it got more advanced, he got angry and tearful at the thought he was ever going to have to move. He thought he was still looking after the house himself, even though he a) refused to leave his armchair except to be taken to he toilet or be put to bed and b) needed 2 carers 4 times a day to help lift/move him. It was a matter of pride - "I OWN this house!" he would shout "I'm staying HERE!". There was no reasoning with him. He was lucky that he was able to stay at home until he died.

MIL has dementia, is more or less bed bound and needs 2 carers to lift/move her, wash her, dress her, feed her. Thankfully she is in a care home, where there are 2 staff available 24 hours a day.

DH and I still work (more or less) full time. How the heck could we care for her, OP?

What planet are you on?

OP you have absolutely no idea. You sound like one of those people who thinks they know exactly what it’s like to have kids because you’ve seen some of your friends have them. You are hugely underestimating how it will be, what particularly comes across is an assumption that elderly or ill relatives will conveniently only have demands at a time of the day or week that suits you or your family’s schedule. There is so much more you don’t understand, but you aren’t going to appreciate that until you get there.

Are there really loads of people who have spare time, live close to their parents, have a good relationship with them, are financially secure etc who don't do anything regarding some form of care for their elderly parents. I've never met anyone like that.

Carers Allowance is a pittance @IceCreamAndCandyfloss has proved she is a goady fucker as shes posted on other threads that everybody shoud be working all hours.

And as it has now been said that retirement age should be increased to 75 (AND BEFORE ANYONE SAYS ITS JUST A THINK TANK THEY ARE THE SAME THINK TANK THAT CAME UP WITH UNIVERSAL CREDIT) so how will all this be achieved. People cant be in too places at once.

Carers are treated like they are scroungers. SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ACTING SO SURPRISED THAT PEOPLE WONT DO IT.

carers who care for an elderly parent while living at home with the parent in a social housing property are often evicted for their pains because there is not always a succession of tenancy so then the carer ends up homeless.

And there are plenty of posters on here with the attitude of "well why should he/she get the tenancy.

There is NO SECURITY for carers And society treats them like shit

You reap what you sow!

*nursing home (not a care home).

And even then, DH has a LOT of managing and organising of her finances etc to do. That's nearly another full time job in itself.

Hi OP,
I won't go into too much detail here as it's outing but I lost my dad when I was 33 (he was 57).
I also lost my mum 3 years later and she was 58.
Both of them got very Ill at the same time and continued to deteriorate quite quickly.
We did everything we could for them but it resulted in eventually them having to go into a nursing home as they needed 24 hour care.
One of them originally was in a hospice but the hospice couldn't really keep them very long and we wanted our parents to be able to be together.
It was so hard as whilst all this was going on I had a 3 year old and then I was pregnant.
I think if it hadn't have been both of them at the same time things might have been different.
We were still very much involved and visited and cared for them right till the end.
Essentially though I agree with you OP but in some situations it is so hard.

Just read TwoPups post.

so, so true.

When we've gone off for a holiday, DH always gets a call from a carer or agency about something. Often on the first day. Sometimes the calls last half an hour, or he has to make further calls to deal with the first one. You are 'always on'. He doesn't get a break and it's taking its toll on him - I think that's been about 6 or 7 years on the trot now. It's aged him.

Well I’m surprised OP has time to do anything what with running around being the OW in the past.

@HelenaDove is that so? Everyone but her dp apparently. What a sap.

Caring for someone is sometimes hard

Practical things I can do easily like cut grass, plan a lovely day out, order medicine

I can't fix everything, I can offer, time & support

Not everyone is cut out to be 24x7x365 carer & I admire people who are.

And how can you be 37 and not realise people could have school age children when their parents are elderly? Even if you were to get pregnant now you’d be pushing 50 before yours left primary school. OK if your mum is 56 she had you very young but surely you realise that’s not that common.

The ironic thing is that the OP is not going to be juggling childcare, full time working parents and a caring role. She’ll work as usual and her husband will do all the rest. I believe she is not yet a parent either, so has no concept of juggling the responsibilities which will primarily rely with the vulnerable human you’ve chosen to bring into this world.

wheresmymojo You have no right to call people selfish when you won’t actually be doing the caring. You need to be less black and white. Not everyone has parents who can be considered abusive but they may have parents with whom they have a challenging relationship. Many people have ambivalent and confusing emotions towards their parents. It doesn’t make them selfish, it makes them human. Humanity is something you could do with learning, to be honest.

In all my many years of being a social worker, I know probably zero individuals who do absolutely nothing for their older parents. Those who don’t do anything have quite specific reasons. It is because they can’t due to location or disability, but even then, they’ll liaise with health and social care professionals. I’ve had adult children from Australia and various far flung locations dropping me emails and phoning. Most do some form of helping; driving to hospital appointments, shopping, bringing favourite meals, bringing the grandchildren for a visit, making phone calls, getting cash out of the bank and various other little tasks. I’m afraid, with respect, you are wrong and you have no idea how most families function. You also have no idea of what constitutes care and support. For many people, the monthly visit from their grandchildren is worth a hundred times more than cutting the grass.

My parents can fuck right off. They never supported me so I don't see why I should support them

What don't paid carers do? My job description literally says "to meet the needs, and where feasible, wants of service users".

What this means is if you pay for your own care I will be your carer, your friend to socialise with, your personal shopper, your grocery delivery serice, your chef, your hair stylist, your dog walker, your friend and I will also undertake 'light housework' and 'light gardening'.

If your care is funded it depends very much on what the council believe you need. Council funded care only covers needs not wants. They asses you, decide on your needs and award you ever so many minutes per day of care. We don't care what you do with those minutes as long as your basic needs are met within them. If you decide you want to shower every other day instead of every day so you can save your minutes to go to the cinema once a month, that's up to you. The council do understand people need social interaction and we are paid to do sit-in services and accompany residents on outings if it is decided that is the best way to meet their needs but most who get their care paid for are awarded minutes to escort them to the day center and leave them there.

@wheresmymojo - If they refuse to move then honestly that is their issue. I find large chunks of my parents and grandparents generations to be very expectant of younger generations when it comes to care. I have told one set several times that I will not be moving my life 200 miles back home but they still mention it regularly. They are 60 and still fit and working but already have expectations that they will not have to pay for their care but I will with my time. It's just not happening.

My parents aren't poverty stricken by the way, I won't be leaving them to a life of starvation and cold. I am very aware how much care cost but it's something I am having to save towards as well even in my 30s. There is helping out but there is also taking personal responsibility for your life.

I'm 37, worked hard in my industry to good level and then became self employed because it pays more. I never worked as a management consultant for anyone else.

You said earlier that most people caring for elderly relatives will be in their 50s and 60s and won't have young children to think about.....but you're not starting a family til late 30s (which isnt uncommon). When your own children are late 30s you'll be early 70s. If you needed care in your late 70s its very likely they would have young children. I'm 41, i had DC in my late 20s/early 30s and I'm now helping to deal with the care of my dad who is in his 80s. My kids are young teen/junior school age, they are not self sufficient. I also have an elderly aunt who has no children so very likely myself and my siblings may need to organise care for her as well. Its very likely that as women have children later, or don't have families at all that the burden will fall on someone juggling working and young DC at home.

Not everyone has grand children

Not everyone has the finances to travel to visit their relatives

People are fortunate if they have 5 friends that they could call in an emergency at any time

Anyone who says anyone else should care for an elderly relative or goodness me want to care for an elderly relative has obviously no experience of caring for someone ill or elderly at all. It's very complex task physically and emotionally.

I was very black and white over this and in truth unless my mum has lost her mind and :/ or needed care for complex health issues, she'll be coming to live with me. However, i've seen my dh's family and they have a different approach, which I thought of as heartless (assumption that the parent goes into a home) and actually I quite admire that level of transparency ahead of time. They don't expect nor want their children's lives to be disrupted by having to provide care for them. They come from a far more healthy familial relationship environment too, so it makes me wonder why my side are so fastidious that we will never let our mum to into a home. I'm not sure anyone is right or wrong, it's what works for the family.

I'm 48 with an 8yr old and 10yr old. My father is 87 and my mother 85. Mum has dementia. Someone up thread said people in my position are a rarity. I'm afraid we're not. A lot of my peer group are going through the same.

They are both living on their own but SS have recently been involved due to her behaviour which has been horrific. Trying to juggle this new phase of life is difficult to say the least. Years ago I remember saying to my Mum come live with us when you're old. I had no idea what I was saying. I didn't know that she would want to maintain their independence. I didn't realise how my father would shun all help and yet expect me to drop everything when the crisis hits (which is more and more frequent - think going missing or violence so bad that she has to be put into emergency care for my Dads protection) I didn't know there would be a point where she would be in need of medical care and I wouldn't be able to provide this. This is the reality I hadn't appreciated and this is what everyone is trying to explain to you OP.

Neither parent wants to go into a home. Neither wants to leave where they live to live near me 1.5hrs away. And why should they move somewhere they don't know.? My children are at school here, we both have jobs that don't exist in the area they live in. Moving to be closer to them isn't an option and isn't something they want to see us do.

I have been worried that if my Dad dies that I will need to care for mum in my home. This would mean I couldn't work. I couldn't leave the children with her due to her violence. I certainly couldn't leave her in the house on her own. I wouldn't even be able to do the school run due to her mobility and her often refusal to leave the house.

She is awake all night. She is abusive. She sets things on fire. My own father has said she will ruin our life if she lives with us.

Due to recent SS intervention I now know that she will be taken into a care home and that is a huge relief. She a risk to herself and my family.

I have experience of my grandmother living with us from when I was 14. She lived to 96 and was fit of body and mind. But it was a very lonely existence for her. She spent most of her time in her own room not wanting to impose on the rest of the family. It breaks my heart looking back. She always regretted giving up her home,

OP you honestly should have the grace to listen to those who are going through this and know the reality.

I think when there are siblings, they need to have a realistic conversation about who wants to do what, before any concrete decisions are made.

If one sibling wants to care for them, but the other not, and states so, I think the one who wants to, needs to accept that and think through if they can realistically do it on their own. They shouldn't take it all on board themselves, and then slag off the other sibling for not helping.

I have a 9 month old, a 5 year old and work 30 hours a week. My dad is 68 so not elderly but has a lot of health problems. Me and my brother (who has 3 kids and works full time) are doing more and more for him. Cleaning, shopping, taking him to appointments arranging visits from chiropodists, occupational therapists etc etc. Phone constantly at hand in case he has an emergency, or decides that he needs milk or a bill paying right that very minute despite me being there the day before and asking if he needed anything about 47 fucking times.
Today he had an appointment with a consultant for his legs at a hospital 45 minutes from home. My brother had to take 3 hours off work. Tomorrow he has a physio assessment, I’ve had to take an unpaid morning off work as if goes by himself he will just tell them he’s fine. On Wednesday he has an appointment for tests at another hospital an hour away from his home. I have had to call in a friend for help with babysitting my kids and have agreed to have her kids next weekend in exchange for having my 2. So the lovely family day I had planned now involves me and 5 kids.
He was in hospital a few weeks ago but navigating daily visits, doing his washing, taking in clean clothes, trying to be there to meet his medical team to find out what was actually happening. The terror of waiting for scans under the 2 week cancer pathway (thankfully negative) plus looking after my kids and my home, returning to work after maternity leave and trying to see my dp for more then 5 minutes at a time almost broke me. It doesn’t just effect me either. My kids end up spending several hours a week at my dads house staring at kids tv while I clean, pay his bills (he refuses to have direct debits) etc etc. Dp has to do more then his fair share of childcare and housework, has had to leave work early to collect the kids from childcare when there’s been an emergency or an appointment has over ran.

So yeah op call me selfish if you will but NO I don’t want to care for my dad. I’m broken already and it’s only going to get worse.