...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

What I'm saying is that you don't currently provide this rose tinted vision of care alongside running your own home, being an active parent for a teenager, both parents working long hours. At the moment, one of you works a long day. Whoopie do. Come back when your own mum 200 miles away needs you, your in laws still need your support, you have children who also need you and you are both working the hours you currently do.

Carers won't do that stuff.

Who says? My mums a carer, she shops for and showers one lady, takes another to the bingo, and her third one she bakes a cake with once a week. She'd happily garden for someone.

This is the opposite to what I see

What do you "see"?

Of which people's lives do you have insight?

Down time is important. You value it more when you don't have it, but you don't even seem to have children. How can you tell other people that they don't need down time?

But most of what you're talking about can be done by others - DPs have a gardener as some of the work got too much for them, they have started getting deliveries of ready meals that are popular with a few of the elderly folk on their street,and if they get to the stage where they need more help in the home, then again this can be bought.

I don't have any siblings and can scarcely look after my own home and garden, I'm really not going to be rushing to do someone else's as well. As I said before if they need help organising this, I'm very happy to facilitate this if - they have shown me their bank balances and can well afford it.

It's also important to them to maintain their independence as long as they can. So I had casually mentioned that one of our friends DMs had got a cleaner , but DM took that as a bit of a personal affront and got busy with the cleaning.

What my DPs do need and can't be provided as well through paid help , is to feel loved and wanted. So I visit and contact them as frequently as I can - although doubtless you'd feel that whatever the level of contact is - it could be more frequent.

Well OP, before I left the country, I still lived 600km away from my mother - we settled in the city where we left our homes to go to university for.

Lived there since I was 19. Bought property, made friends, had family, who had schools, made friends. Had jobs.

Little bit unrealistic to think that we'd be upping sticks to move to a very small, holiday/retirement town with no employment prospects for either of us, don't you think?

And a little bit far to be going to do the shopping, popping in, gardening etc, isn't it?

And where should we shift to - Australia where the FIL is (yeah, right!), Wellington where the MIL is, or the Golden Bay where my mother is?

I'm a bit surprised that you've reached the grand old age of 37 and not realised that life isn't quite as tidy as you think it is, or hope it will be.

Perhaps that's because you don't yet have children, or elderly parents, or scattered family and all the conflicting interests, pressures and tensions that creates? It's all theoretical to you. And it's so much tidier, and easier to resolve when it's theoretical. You can ignore, or dismiss the elements that don't fit into, or disrupt your scenario and imagined solutions rather than having to actually resolve them.. .

I'm assuming if there were specific reasons these children weren't getting involved the OPs would say so (e.g. my brother can't get more involved as he already has SILs elderly parents to care for / children with special needs / works six days a week / whatever)

Parents have to take responsibility too though, one of my mums neighbours isn't ill yet but is starting to struggle with physical things & house upkeep. She goes on & on about her only son not visiting regularly & how she feels alone. However her son moved to another city up North because they were struggling to get on the property ladder & afford childcare. They moved closer to the wife's parents who are doing some childcare & where they can afford for wife to work p/t & buy a house. Now his mum thinks they have been very selfish despite living in a 1.5 m house & never even offering to babysit once in 5 years. She only seems to forget that her parents provided lots of free childcare.

I'm 37, worked hard in my industry to good level and then became self employed because it pays more. I never worked as a management consultant for anyone else.

Jesus christ! 37? And you havent had enough life experience to learn unless you have done something, you dont really understand what it's like to experience it?

So you work all those hours. Dh will give up work. Meaning dh will be providing this care not you. Otherwise you wont see your child.

So when your dh is caring for your child, and having all these extras jobs put on him while you sit back and say 'its easy'. Expect him to really resent you.

You are having a laugh.

Erm...no.

I'm 37, worked hard in my industry to good level and then became self employed because it pays more. I never worked as a management consultant for anyone else.

I think they were referring to your attitude rather than your career. No experience of caring for elderly parents, no children (as far as you've told us) but you think you know more about juggling them both than people who actually have.

You do what works for you OP. It’s transparently clear that you haven’t the faintest idea or ounce of empathy for anyone not in your exact situation so just fucking crack on being the shining example of humanity that you are.

I was going to contribute my story but just thinking of how to write it out coherently really upset me and made me anxious because of the emotions it brings up and I realised I have no need to justify myself to some dickhead who had no experience of anything they’re happily sitting in judgement of others on.

You’ve fucking pages of people’s actual experience and you’re dismissing it so fucking easily it’s hard to believe you’re not a sociopath.

Ive driven 100s of miles to take X to hospital this week & there is a future operation & more time required to provide care

When relative was sick for several months on more than one occasion, I visited every week

Not everyone has friends, neighbors or family who are able to help

Relative has requested that I relocate, but I've refused & they don't want to move from the town that they have always lived in

If health is stable I visit once a month & we have a couple of holidays together

We enjoy our time together, because we appreciate our time together

I also do things like find cheaper utility bills, cut grass, food shops, entertain etc

We have been through some very tough times

It's hard sometimes financially, emotionally, time

But so far it's been worth the effort

I have received a thank you today & that means a lot

From my position, I try, but I've said no to some of the requests & that has worked out ok so far

I work FT & have my own life too

My father is awesome and was and has been an excellent father. He is very elderly now.

Should he eventually require care my plan is to arrange, manage and supervise it. If this means he needs to live closer then I will arrange it.

I then intend to visit him with my children to keep him company. He would hate me to provide personal care and so would I.

I am stunned you’ve got to that age in that form of career with absolutely zero emotional intelligence, empathy, or awareness of anything outside your own narrow experience. Seriously.

YABU, my parents did this for my grandma many years ago.
No care homes families were expected to do it, and no carers allowance either.
My poor parents were run ragged and had 2 dc at the time, it's no life.
Grandma had a stroke and they cared for 10 years.
Dad was a dab hand at lifting on her comode after a full days work.

However, I do agree that some people don't see it as their job, but maybe because they have been brought up believing that families belong in institutions rather than cared for at home, can you believe it starts at just one year old for many poor sods. They grow up and do the same to their parents, institutions rule, OP.
So would you be prepared to do this for your mil OP, because you know it's what you are expected to do.

My relative has a cleaner who visits once a week & provides lots of social chats. The cleaning is really an extra bonus. It's been a really positive outcome

But if the ones you love refuse to go into a home because they want to stay in their own home as long as possible...then what?

My friend's mother is doing this. She wasn't a great mother to her at all and certainly wasn't a doting grandmother. But she expects all of her children to disrupt their lives so she can stay where she wants. This leaves my friend who has small children and a busy essential job taking her turn for caring for a woman she doesn't like or respect. She does it because she doesn't want to let her siblings down but it is not good for her mental health at all.

We all have to do things we don't like at various stages of our lives. I didn't particularly want to live in a rickety rundown flat when we emigrated but it was all we could afford so that's where I lived. When you get to a certain age it is pure selfishness to stay put when doing so means your children have to change their lives so you can do so.

My mum was fabulous - best mother ever and an even better grandmother. My sister and I had no bother minding her when she was old - we did it because we are family and we loved her. It still was incredibly difficult. Our children certainly suffered to a certain extent. And she spent her last 6 months in a nursing home and neither of us felt any guilt at all. It isn't a simple thing caring for elderly parents and I wouldn't judge anyone.

When I was young and my grandfather was ill, my DM took care of him. She went around before work to get him up and make him breakfast, went to work full time, and went round straight after work and stayed there until late in the evening, sometimes after we had gone to bed. She was there most of the days on weekends. My siblings and I rarely saw her. If we went out anywhere she could only come if it was nearby and only for a couple of hours, because she needed to take care of my grandfather. My parent's siblings helped when they could but they lived hours away, in one case in another country. She was incredibly stressed and it was very hard on the whole family.

I now live hours away from my parents. If they need care in the future, should they come and live with me in my small flat with no spare room, or should I give up my job and move back home? If I have kids by then, should I never get to spend time with them? With luck, they'll be teenagers by then, and apparently, from age thirteen onwards you don't need to spend any time with your parents.

Thank you @dottydally and hugs back to you xxx

This is the crux of the whole dilemma - the uncertainty and the difficulty of accessing the right help at the right moment because something that was routine one day is now a vague and distant memory and the plans you have / safeguards in place are now suddenly obsolete......deterioration in so many elderly people is like water torture interspersed by random tsunamis.....

I don't know who would look after my parents if they became ill. All their children have jobs that have taken us abroad and we are dotted around the globe. With globalization this is happening more and more. Whoever takes on the responsibility will have to give up their careers. There are no prospects in our hometown which is why we had to leave in the first place. So we would be returning to a post brexit scenario, unemployed. But worse, my bro and I have foreign spouses. I have a child of my own. I probably wouldn't be allowed to bring my family, especially with no income in sight. And could I uproot my family? I just don't know what we are going to do.
My dh has the same situation. Left his home country in seek of work, leaving his elderly father behind. He's an only child and there's no other relatives around. We're concerned his dad has Parkinsons but he's too proud to visit the doctor.
What the next years will bring truly terrifies me.

There is also a vast difference in care requirements, I had a grandparent & a great grand parent who were very healthy & then needed some light assistance for approx 6 months before they passed in their late 90s. They did live with family & had carers come in but they were relatively cognitive & just weak. Contrast this to a uncle who was diagnosed with dementia in his late 60s & had a rapid decline which ended up with him being sectioned. There is no way any family could safely look after him, he's in a care home heavily sedated most days.

OP, you know what they say about management consultants borrowing your watch to tell you the time? You haven’t even borrowed the watch, don’t have one of your own and have your back to the clock.

My dad was early 50s when diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I became his carer when my kids were 5 and 8 alongside taking care of my dm who had cancer and later my dh who was dying of cancer.
I had no proper time for my kids.
They are now 16 and 19, dad and dh have both passed and mum lives alone after recovering from her cancer. I now work permanent nights aswell as balancing a relationship and am unable to care for my dm.
I feel guilty sometimes but when I think how close I was to a total breakdown before I now put my wellbeing above everything except the boys.

Of course I have friends who help their parents too. It's obviously easier if you live close by
Some of my friends & colleagues live with their parents

I agree people are living longer, with more complex health needs
Some elderly people don't like change, but sometimes it's for their own benefit

Society should be judged on how we treat our young, sick, old

I don't agree with the Ops statement that people don't help their parents
Do what you are able

What a strange thread! The OP has made a decision to look after her elderly parents when the time comes and believes that she has achieved sainthood.

I am getting on for elderly and do not want my dd to put her and my dgd's lives on hold to look after me in my dotage, which will probably coincide with dgd's teenage years.

I also don't think there is much quality of life for an elderly person to be uprooted from their neighbourhood and plonked down in another part of the country, which is what I would have had to do with my own mother if she'd lived long enough to need that kind of care.

Relative has requested that I relocate, but I've refused & they don't want to move from the town that they have always lived in
it seems fairly common for people once they get past 80 or so to increasingly focus on their own short term needs and ignore those of others, I'm not saying this is deliberate, I think it is largely unconscious and just an expression of a survival drive, but it means that those helping them need to have very firm boundaries or the elderly person will just ride roughshod over them.
In many cases family members are just too emotionally involved (in positive and negative ways) to be suitable carers, it's very hard to have firm boundaries with a parent who has trained you from year zero to obey them.
If your parent was something of a bully....he will meet the ultimate fate of the bully, the second he weakens those whom he (or she) tormented smell blood and instinctively turn on him

My mum died age 63 (i was in my early 30s) she had had cancer for 6 years and had various treatments but died after an infection. She didnt need "care" as such although they had a cleaner and my dad did all the household chores.

She had dreaded being old and was mortified at the idea of incontinence pants. She would have felt a real loss if dignity and would completely not have wanted myself or my siblings to have to change or bathe her.