UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

Of course you can decline HV visits,you could 18 years ago anyway. I had a lovely HV but when she retired I had an absolute shocker so refused visits. There was no come back whatsoever even though I'd had severe PND.

CatchIt they don’t just care about something they read on FB. They are so worried about possible side effects that they have weighed up the perceived risk and decided they don’t want to take it for their child.
How do we educate people to weigh up risk more effectively? That’s the only way we are going to get these people to vaccinate their children. Get the trust back, not punish and isolate.

Figures off the top of my head but 00.01 % risk of seizure or other complication versus 20% chance of non vaccination leading to catching a disease that also can lead to seizure or other complication. How can we persuade people to take those odds? And how can the medical profession demonstrate that when something goes wrong they act quickly, transparently and truthfully.

@Saucery

I nearly died when I was 2 from whooping cough. I hadn’t had the vaccine. My dad said he was terrified, he was sitting with me and he thought I was going to die. I ended up in A&E.

BlueSkiesLies

You’ve articulated beautifully the issues that keep me up at night.

The anti-vax stuff is insidious for me, cos it really fits the category of ‘nightmares we’ve created for ourselves’ in a very scary way. Like there aren’t enough real problems facing our kids’ futures, now we’re actually turning one of the big, brilliant ‘solutions’ of recent history around. Crap.

I often lie in the dark and wonder how I would explain the quasi-magical concept of immunisation to a worried mother in the developing world. And then go on to explain how many of my country-folk have decided that they’ll just choose to reject it. It’s proven, free and plentiful. Available on most street corners. But they’re ‘a bit sceptical’ due to ‘reasons’. Honestly, I’d be too embarrassed to explain.

@JacquesHammer

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that.

I don't think it's right to deny unvaccinated children a state education. You can't say it's free education paid for by taxpayers and therefore parents are entering into a contract with the state because that ignores the fact that anti vaxers are tax payers too. Are they going to get a rebate if their children are denied education?

Surely they would be treated just like anyone else who chooses to home educate because that's the choice they are making. To vaccinate and have access to state educate or not.

Measles is not fully preventable. Even with herd immunity, a vaccinated person can catch and pass on measles. There have been confirmed outbreaks where patient zero was a fully immunised person, like this one in NYC in 2011 (where vaccination rates were at 95% or herd immunity level)

“Get the measles vaccine, and you won’t get the measles—or give it to anyone else. Right? Well, not always. A person fully vaccinated against measles has contracted the disease and passed it on to others. The startling case study contradicts received wisdom about the vaccine and suggests that a recent swell of measles outbreaks in developed nations could mean more illnesses even among the vaccinated.

When it comes to the measles vaccine, two shots are better than one. Most people in the United States are initially vaccinated against the virus shortly after their first birthday and return for a booster shot as a toddler. Less than 1% of people who get both shots will contract the potentially lethal skin and respiratory infection. And even if a fully vaccinated person does become infected—a rare situation known as “vaccine failure”—they weren’t thought to be contagious.

That’s why a fully vaccinated 22-year-old theater employee in New York City who developed the measles in 2011 was released without hospitalization or quarantine. But like Typhoid Mary, this patient turned out to be unwittingly contagious. Ultimately, she transmitted the measles to four other people, according to a recent report in Clinical Infectious Diseases that tracked symptoms in the 88 people with whom “Measles Mary” interacted while she was sick. Surprisingly, two of the secondary patients had been fully vaccinated. And although the other two had no record of receiving the vaccine, they both showed signs of previous measles exposure that should have conferred immunity.”
Science magazine, 2014

I know, Skaife it’s absolutely terrifying. I was vaccinated, then the scare happened so my sister wasn’t. When my Mum took her to the GP he flatly refused to accept she had it. Mum wasn’t overreacting, or blaming anyone, she just wanted advice, but he denied whooping cough was a ‘thing’ any more, due to the vaccination programme that had ended a couple of years earlier. She knew what it was, she’d seen it many times before due to her profession.
That sort of outright lie doesn’t help people trust hcps.

Nope. You have the right to decline the HV service.

You do. You also have the right to decline an invitation from the police to help with their enquiries. They will then investigate further to see whether they have grounds to take out a warrant for your arrest. If they do, you have no choice in the matter. Similarly, you can refuse to have any interaction with the health visitors. Do you think someone just says “Oh, fine, that’s okay then”? Of course not. It would be utterly irresponsible were that so....as children are the most vulnerable members of our society. It will be flagged with social services, who will then investigate. Maybe not directly, maybe not to your knowledge, but you will be investigated...if only in the form of a note to your child’s GP. Kids aren’t - and shouldn’t be - “off radar”.

I can remember reading a magazine interview with a woman who had 7 children.

The younger 6 were all diagnosed as autistic, only the eldest wasn't, and only the eldest hadn't had MMR.

Despite the discrediting of Wakefield's research, it's possible that the whole truth about the effectiveness of the vaccines and the possibility of vaccine damage isn't yet known.

As a child, I had measles, mumps, chicken pox and rubella, and bf DD for nearly 2 years. She was vaccinnated, but later on. At the time, my GP didn't object to us not vaccinnating her, and the sister of an immunologist told me that her brother was against the number of vaccines given to small children.

So, while I am pro-vaccination, I am against excluding unvaccinated people from schools or other public places. The “risk” they pose to others has been wildly exaggerated.

Do you think someone just says “Oh, fine, that’s okay then”?

Yes.

Becca it's not the same. Home educators can access the state system at any point without having to inject their children with things they perceive to be harmful first. Bodily autonomy is not something we should be pressured into giving up.

Not everyone has the ability to hone educate. Those who choose it are dedicated to doing a good job - they will have researched and educated themselves, be willing to buy in help for the subjects they cannot cover properly at home. Forced HE just denies children their entitlement to a good education, since their parents might not have the skill or resources to do it properly. That's unfair on the children.

And the note to the GP simply informs them that the other professional hasn’t completed certain checks. That isn’t action. No action will be taken against you for declining a HV appointment. Get a grip.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that

Both? Certainly how I felt.

Plus of course amazement at the sheer arrogance that Janet from Basingstoke* with no medical knowledge whatsoever knew more through a computer screen than DD's consultants.

*Names changed to protect the terminally stupid innocent

I believe that more people would take up vaccines if the govt/health authorities were honest that vaccines do damage a small minority of people rather than being in complete denial and compensate if necessary.

Completely agree with this, and what another PP said about trust not being there between parents and the NHS.

Back when the whole Wakefield scandal was at it's height, despite us being told the MMR was safe, there was literally no acknowledgement that some parents genuinely believed that their children had been vaccine damaged. Whatever your stance on vaccines, it is a fact that some children are damaged by them, and constantly being told that they are safe and treated as if you are stupid to have concerns certainly don't help with uptake. As has been said, we didn't have access to information on the internet in th same way as we do today, and while there were plenty of people saying that no link had been found to show the MMR was unsafe, I couldn't find information about any study that had actually been done on vaccine damaged children. It may have happened since, I stopped following the whole thing after I'd made my choice to go down the singles route. I may have made a different choice if my children were young now, but I think the government, especially Tony Blair who refused to say whether his own children had had the MMR, should accept a large amount of responsibility for the position we are in now. They did not handle it well.

NataliaOsipova you absolutely have the right to opt out of the health visiting service, It is an optional service. Stop trying to frighten people.

@OrchidInTheSun my sons 7 and he's had the single mums vaccine so that's not quite true

@Saucery

I’m 40 but had a load of recommended vaccines and boosters done 10 years ago, prior to a trip to India. Including the MMR.

The MMR was free, as were the tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough boosters. I had to pay for the typhoid and something else. The ones that were free were because I could catch those in the UK, I had to pay for the typhoid and something else as I wouldn’t catch them in the UK.

Woodland like yours, my youngest was quite unwell at around MMR time, so we delayed it, however she was all caught up by starting school, although I did check we had enough of a gap between vaccinations.

I didn’t have some of the scheduled vaccinations as a child, but this was on medical advice as my sister suffered convulsions after hers.

single mumps not mums

@angelasashes
I totally agree

Also -if excluded unvaccinated children how do you exclude unvaccinated adults?
Probably a lot of adults out there who aren’t up to date with vaccines and might not even know

It wouldn’t be fair to exclude the ones who also then can’t be immunised

Hepatitis A and B was the other one I had to pay for, as well as the typhoid.

The way to convince anti vaxers is to be open and honest. Acknowledge that there is a tiny risk, while emphasising the positives far outweigh them. Help fearful parents to understand statistics, rather than accuse them of ignorance, when they are just trying to protect their kids, in the way they think is best.
Anger won't persuade them, not will threats - they will just perceive that the govt is lying and coercing them to risk their children.

and here I am new with four children, three autistic. Three vaccinated. And yet it's one of the vaccinated ones that doesn't have a diagnosis. Oh, and I'm autistic and at the age of sixty, I'm happy to let you know that I too am unvaccinated because it didn't bloody exist when I was a child.