UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

I really don’t agree with the idea of making vaccinations compulsory. It’s awful and frustrating that some people believe that the vaccination is dangerous or ineffective (they seem to be quite stupid) but the principle of individual autonomy when it comes the healthcare decisions is a vital one

Agreed.

Anti-vaxxers are thick as two short planks.

However isn't it easy to take such a moral stance when the chance is your kid is protected by herd immunity from everyone else vaccinating their kids.

I would fully support a requirement for children to be vaccinated before entering state (and private) education. In fact we were asked when DD started her prep if we were up to date on her innoculations.

I believe that more people would take up vaccines if the govt/health authorities were honest that vaccines do damage a small minority of people rather than being in complete denial and compensate if necessary. I have an auto immune disease that I believe was triggered by the Rubella vaccine and it had a devastating effect on my life.

I am not anti vaccine and my children were vaccinated, but I feel that just saying all people who are wary are thick or misguided is untrue.

Many people of my generation are unvaccinated (I am in my 50s) I had measles as a child and was not seriously ill. I believe that many immigrants and visitors aren’t vaccinated either. Just targeting young kids won’t solve the problem.

My rational is that the fear of an unvaccinated child infected a vaccinated child is unfounded

If vaccinated children are higher risk of catching measles than unvaccinated children then I would never have vaccinated.

Unless you have worded your rationale incorrectly.

It’s not herd immunity I am talking about.
It’s the individual mother of a vaccinated child who doesn’t let an unvaccinated child over to play in case she spreads disease

NataliaOsipova

The idea that you will be punished or investigated for declining a HV appointment is plainly incorrect and actually a very dangerous thing to say to new mothers. Do some research.

Unless the State can demonstrate that I am withholding necessary medical treatment from my child, the decision-making power is with me in the form of PR. It is right and proportionate that PR can only be removed from me by a court, not by blanket legalisation.

What is more scary in this world than the anti vaxxers you will pass on your day to day business is the big famous names who are out there encouraging anti vax which spurs the whole movement on.

Maybe people should be more focused on shaming those people to stop it happening

Well my son had it before I'd even vaccinated him....so we certainly weren't measles free three years ago!

That’s a good point, Wolfff. I’m not vaccinated against MMR. I believe I am immune because I know I had those diseases as a child. 40+ years of exposure to those diseases now and again would suggest I am immune (and to Chicken Pox too) but I haven’t got definitive blood test proof of that.
Do we insist on proof for older adults?

I didn’t think we had ever been truly measles free but I guess you have to have a certain amount of cases to be classed as measles prone maybe?

People that don't play by the rules of society don't deserve to benefit form society

It always amazes me how hypocritical people are about vaccination on here. So I have my child vaccinated to benefit society and s/he suffers nasty life-changing side-effects. Will society help me then? Not a chance. Look at the fight parents have to get provision for their children with special needs. So it should always be a choice for parents. Always.

And yes, vaccine damage DOES happen. The existence of vaccine damage legislation from the 1970s is evidence. The risk may be tiny but I believe it is a parent's right to choose. You could say that you would charge parents for treated the illnesses but then I think you would also need to consider charging people for NHS treatment for conditions caused by drugs/alcohol/junk food and where do you stop?

One final comment - a large percentage of the measles cases have been caused by people coming in from Eastern Europe. Through no fault of their own, vaccination rates have dropped, especially in Ukraine, for obvious reasons. People dealing with war have other priorities. The vaccination rates among Uk residents are still very high.

Well my son had it before I'd even vaccinated him....so we certainly weren't measles free three years ago!

"Measles free" doesn't mean no incidences of measles, it simply means below a certain recorded level. Unfortunately 3 years ago, measles was already on the rise due to lack of vaccine uptake. I hope your son made a full recovery.

@ErrolTheDragon I didn’t believe the anti vaxxers, parents at the time didn’t know what the hell to believe. I don’t mean to sound patronising or disparaging, but you really had to be there.

My kids have been vaccinated with MMR, but I chose the to have it done 6 months later.
If I had babies now, I’d have their vaccines done on schedule amd wouldn’t wait the extra 6 months which I believed gave their systems time to be more mature.

Our vaccination rates in my county or borough have to be above 95% (I think it is) to be classed as covering herd immunity and recently dropped to 93%
So yes I believe that is still a very high proportion

Where I live you don’t even have to make an appointment. They have 2 drop in vaccine clinics a week and each time I’ve happened to be their on vaccine days it’s full to the brim of people waiting to be vaccinated

Many people of my generation are unvaccinated (I am in my 50s)
So am I. All 4 of my siblings had measles (I had natural immunity it would seem), luckily none of them had lasting complications. My ex husband has damage to one eye as a result of measles and has had to wear glasses all of his life as a result.
I don't think the measles vax was available in the '60s, I'm sure my Mum would have taken it up, we had all the ones that were given.

"Where do you stop? Do you ban unvaccinated children from swimming pools, family parties held in public areas, climbing walls, museums, art galleries......?"

Yes, we'll theoretically, unfortunately actually proving it would be nigh on impossible, however, why should these people be allowed to share public spaces with people when they only care about some bullshit they read on Facebook?

Old people, babies and immune-compromised people also have the right to be able to share public areas without fear that some Karen didn't vaccinate her kids because of 'big pharma' conspiracies.

Parents don't always know best.

And lets be brutally honest.

50% of the UK population is by definition less intelligent that average IQ of 100. Many people would consider 100 to not actually be especially bright...

Added to that humans are also terrible at assessing risk and probability. Most people don't understand statistics. Most people don't have access to decent peer reviewed research papers on medical matters. Most people haven't got the science and other educational background required to understand such papers.

Basically most people need to back the fuck away from the keyboard and their 'evidence' on daily mail (at best!) and at worst dedicated anti-vaxer 'this is the REAL TRUTH they tried to HIDE from you' click-bait websites.

We are also dangerously close to a post-antibiotic world. That, combined with a rise in people not vaccinating will make developed countries scary places to live again. Where you worry your child will die after they came into contact with a sick kid at a party, where you might die because that cut on your leg has become infected.

Plus the climate change emergency and the rise of far right politics, well it is all a bit depressing.

This is ridiculous that a preventable disease is now being spread because of some idiots refusing the free vaccines to protect their children. I used to be friends with one and she would claim to have "researched" and told me that when her child had to go to A&E the doctors admired her knowledge...
Amazingly she could never present a research paper, it was always some crap some nut job had come up with. Personally I'd like to see vaccines become mandatory before being allowed to go to school. This will protect the children that can't be vaccinated for health reasons.

I don't think it's right to deny unvaccinated children a state education. You can't say it's free education paid for by taxpayers and therefore parents are entering into a contract with the state because that ignores the fact that anti vaxers are tax payers too. Are they going to get a rebate if their children are denied education?

Bodily autonomy is too important a thing to give up. As pro vaccination as I am, I would not accept the govt dictating to me what I should or should not put into my own or my children's bodies.

I think the govt didn't help this situation by refusing to give the single vaccine, when people had reasonable concerns. Tony Blair also refused to say whether his own child had been vaccinated, which reinforced the idea that there was something wrong with the MMR. I think it's led to long term mistrust of what the govt says about the safety of vaccines.

I think the govt ought to acknowledge that vaccination is a legitimate worry for new parents because very occasionally a child will react negatively and you don't know until you do it if your child will be that rare case. The govt ought to face that head on instead of acting as if parents have no cause at all to feel fear. They could then (with more authority and respect) emphasize that the benefits far outweigh the very small risks.

BlueSkiesLies

It doesn’t matter whether someone is clever or stupid. They are a person. They have the same human rights whether their IQ is 49 or 149.

I had measles as a child,it was awful, I was 12 and needed 6 weeks off school.

We’ve been here before with the Pertussis/Whooping Cough vaccine in the 1970s. There are still people who remember how your local GP could be vague, obstructive and not at all helpful when it was withdrawn after allegations it could cause neurological damage and seizures. The lack of information about the research was ridiculous and I’d add that to the general feeling of well, they’re not telling us everything, are they? that contributes hugely to the anti vacc movement.

The idea that you will be punished or investigated for declining a HV appointment is plainly incorrect and actually a very dangerous thing to say to new mothers. Do some research.

It’s not incorrect. You won’t be instantly “punished” - of course not. But they are front line social services and they need to see/have a record of your child. Their starting assumption is that you are a good enough parent, whose child is in no danger. You decline an appointment - fair enough. You can decline several. But if you never go to an appointment? You refuse to let them visit? Then social services will investigate - and rightly. Not because they think you’re doing something wrong, but because they have no evidence to maintain the assumption that all is fine. Again - I’d strip the pretence away from this as well. They are the front line of social services. They are - rightly - there to ensure child protection and they see everyone, young or old, rich or poor. There is no targeting or discrimination- you need to show that you’re a competent parent. And I’m all in favour of that.....because children have their own rights and don’t have the ability to speak for themselves.

It’s not incorrect. You won’t be instantly “punished” - of course not. But they are front line social services and they need to see/have a record of your child. Their starting assumption is that you are a good enough parent, whose child is in no danger. You decline an appointment - fair enough. You can decline several. But if you never go to an appointment? You refuse to let them visit? Then social services will investigate - and rightly.

Nope. You have the right to decline the HV service.

It would make me laugh when anti-vaxxers whip out their pseudo-science if it wasn't so terrifying that people actually believe that.

I'm on a FB group that evolved from a clothes buying/selling group. One woman on their actually told me I was irresponsible for ensuring my asthmatic DD had the flu jab and that I could cure her asthma with aloe vera....