UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

Except that it really isn’t a rule. It’s a healthcare decision made for each individual.

Except that individual decisions have repercussions for other people, because there are those who can't be vaccinated who rely on herd immunity.

Those who don't vaccinate not only risk the lives of their own children, they risk the lives of others. That's why there should be sanctions, such as fines, for parents. It's in the interests of the public good.

Isn’t it compulsory in some other countries that children need to be vaccinated before they can go to school?

Yeah in Australia they do

I don't think you can blame the government for not providing single jabs.

MMR exposed children to a smaller dose of MMR vaccine than single jabs, it is 2 GP appointments 4 years apart instead of numerous appointments and it is more effective than singles.

It's a no brainier for a government to provide it and I would actually be quite angry if the government did allow singles on the NHS.

Where do you stop? Do you ban unvaccinated children from swimming pools, family parties held in public areas, climbing walls, museums, art galleries......?

back when parents still had valid reason to be concerned about the MMR.

When was that?
Wakefield's infamous paper was published in feb 1998, our DD was born a year after that and it was abundantly clear then that he was a charlatan. If single vaccines had been made available it would have led to many more parents believing that there was something to be worried about, that they were the safer option and that would have inevitably led to lower compliance and increased costs to the NHS. People who got single vaccines may have thought they were doing the best thing for their individual family but it would have been a serious mistake to encourage it nationally.

There is another issue emerging now which is that the impaired herd immunity caused by this man, coupled with the fact that the efficacy of vaccines (especially the mumps component) is leading to outbreaks among students. If any of you have kids off to uni this September you may want to consider getting them a third MMR booster - our 20yr old had one this summer, one of her friends had to take a gap year because of bad mumps.

Paper below 'Effectiveness of a Third Dose of MMR Vaccine for Mumps Outbreak Control | NEJM'

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1703309

Well yes to be honest if you are expecting to be entitled to the perks of state funded facilities then you need to be willing to be a member of society and do yiur civic duty to others and be vaccinated.

Vasya

Their first responsibility is to their own children. I hesitate to say this on here because I know it’s such an unpopular view, but the idea that we should take collective decisions about healthcare and then enforce them on the minority is dangerous. Look at thalidomide.

I am more sorry than I can say if someone who cannot be vaccinated contracts an illness, but it is not fair to put that on people who choose not to vaccinate their children because they believe that is in their best interests.

Well I’d say in this case, it has as much to do with the govt forcing exclusively MMR and removing access to single jabs as it has to do with people who do not vaccinate against anything at all.

If you travel to some countries you have to prove you’ve had certain jabs. Surely that’s no different to starting school. Proof of address , proof of jabs - place offered! Ok a bit simplistic but you get the drift!

Well yes to be honest if you are expecting to be entitled to the perks of state funded facilities then you need to be willing to be a member of society and do yiur civic duty to others and be vaccinated.

As a citizen you are entitled to both. You are entitled to an education for your children (or more accurately, they are entitled to it) and you are entitled to make decisions about their healthcare.

I understand the controversial points here. That’s just where I come out on it. I don’t want people telling me what chemicals I have to put into my child’s body.

I'm in the middle of two outbreaks one in Nottingham and one in Derby, and I'm healthcare and pregnant. I thankfully had my MMR as an adult and so am protected to an extent. I'm so disappointed my baby will be at risk.

One of my service users recently was isolated in A&E as she had come in contact with measles but the hospital sent her back to a shared home with 12 other girls and 8 staff without mentioning that she had been in contact with it. That is currently under investigation as it's so so irresponsible and could have led to a further outbreak (a lot of our service users had very disrupted lives and didn't have their full vaccination schedule or are my age (37) and older so didn't have it as standard).

There are other options to state education.

Absolute joke. I understand the mentality of not wanting to punish children who's parents have idiotic ideas but I think at this point it's the only way. The parents can't have it both ways because it's not fair on everyone else. A lot of the kids in question will be homeschooled anyway but it might encourage the ones who aren't dedicated to the 'lifestyle' to give up on it. Make it a requirement for nursery, preschool and primary and secondary school.

There are other options to state education.

There are. But my child is entitled to a state education. I am also entitled to make decisions about her healthcare. She is vaccinated, by the way. But if, next year, they brought in a law that said she had to have a new vaccination or forfeit her right to an education, I would fight that in court.

@saucery
Whilst unfortunately that would be a step to far I would be ok with it as in my personal experience the idiots who bring their sick kids to these sort of places, events are antivaxers so would be a win win scenario

Well, if I thought the vaccination might be dangerous.

Doesn't surprise me, I live in Worcestershire and there's been a major outbreak in the town I live in. My 3 year old and 1 year old who are up to date with vaccinations, caught measles themselves. Was awful, I thought chicken pox was bad but measles was so much worse.

For those talking about the single vaccines, my son had them in 2006 as he had a severe allergy to the combined ingredients.

We were warned it was not as effective and that he could still contract any of the vaccinated illnesses.

It would have been irresponsible to make it widely available for that reason and just because some absolute charlatan made up some stuff for money. It was largely panned as soon as it came out in 1998 and the government would have been stupid to put so many at risk for idiocy.

When my son was born and we were going through all the vaccine process it wasn’t the risk of autism that made me concerned about giving the MMR in one dose.
There were other cases of vaccine injuries relating to the MMR that scared me more and must scare a lot of people so I went down the single route too

I am more sorry than I can say if someone who cannot be vaccinated contracts an illness, but it is not fair to put that on people who choose not to vaccinate their children because they believe that is in their best interests.

What utter nonsense. I recently had to report my grandfather to the dvla as he was no longer safe to drive. That certainly wasn't in his best interest, but it was most definitely in the best interests of the thousands of other people he was putting at risk through continuing to drive.

What really amazed me was the lady talking on the radio before who said a lot of the issue was down to busy family life and not having time to sort it. Now I get that people are busy but having a critically ill child is going to take up an awful lot more time than taking a hour out of your day for vaccinations!

@Doodledoom it’s cases like yours that spur the anti vaxxers on because of someone who has MMR and is up to date can still contract measles (which can happen as the vaccine action doesn’t cover all strains) then what is the point?

What utter nonsense. I recently had to report my grandfather to the dvla as he was no longer safe to drive. That certainly wasn't in his best interest, but it was most definitely in the best interests of the thousands of other people he was putting at risk through continuing to drive.

I don’t see what that has to do with autonomy as regards healthcare decisions. The Government can keep your GF off the road, just as they can say you can’t drive drunk, but they can’t inject him with paralysing drugs to protect others from his lawbreaking. He has competency, so he gets to make his own decisions.

This is not an entirely sound policy because the real anti-vaxers, would just switch to home schooling

Which is a problem because?

There will be further ramifications from this than even just in this disease (which is bad enough!)

Lyme is becoming a big issue currently, there was a vaccine developed around the time of MMR which was scrapped as pharma companies thought there would be no uptake.

How many other things could be usefully and sagely vaccinated against and are being dumped because of these unreasonable views