UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

The govt barely pays for the existing schools - I can't see them coughing up money for special anti vax ones!

Also, given that most people do immunise their children, anti vax schools might be quite attractive from a small class size pov.

Bellini I think that when you remove from people their right to consent wrt medical intervention, it's the thin end of the wedge. Where will that leave women's rights for example, if we end up with an anti abortion government in the future? Some rights have to be enshrined in law. It's not the fault of the anti vaxer that you are immunocompromised.

You keep making absolute statements about what the law says, hercule, then when someone that produces evidence that you are mistaken, you constantly seek to qualify it.

Sometimes a qualification is necessary, particularly when someone is engaging in spurious whataboutery. Yes, on the surface of things, some things - like Government emergency powers in the case of a pandemic - look relevant, but they aren’t, because a case of the measles isn’t Ebola, even if it could adversely affect a minority. And even if I had Ebola, the Government still wouldn’t have the right to override my choice. They could remove my PR if I refused treatment for my child, but again, that is because of the seriousness of Ebola.

You see?

What it does have the power to do is to restrict someone's ability to spread the disease that results from their refusal to vaccinate against it, even when that infringes on their freedom of movement or their right to education.

Prove it. I don’t think they do. I think restrictions on freedom of movement would have to be court ordered in individual circumstances or a result of an emergency in which the Government took on temporary powers to deal with an emergency. I don’t think measles is an emergency.

Yes, that is currently your right. The question is whether it should continue to be your right, particularly when the risk is not just to other children but to your own child at most.

If we are going to continue to be compliant with basic medical ethics and the HRA, yes.

I haven't actually said anywhere in this thread that I think people should be forcibly vaccinated. Although that hasn't stopped posters applying Godwin's Law when disagreeing with me. However, I am trying to speak for people like me who are immunocompromised and are at direct risk where there is no herd immunity. As pp has pointed out, antivaxxers don't give a shit about herd immunity although they are, of course, happy to rely on other people being vaccinated to maintain it.

Where will that leave women's rights for example, if we end up with an anti abortion government in the future? Some rights have to be enshrined in law. It's not the fault of the anti vaxer that you are immunocompromised.

Yup. What if, as a result of a popularisation of the stupidity in evidence on this thread, an unvaccinated woman is refused entry to a maternity ward, or a woman is told she has to consent to an induction because it will be quicker, and the bed is needed for someone else?

Utilitarian ethics, eh?

. However, I am trying to speak for people like me who are immunocompromised and are at direct risk where there is no herd immunity. As pp has pointed out, antivaxxers don't give a shit about herd immunity although they are, of course, happy to rely on other people being vaccinated to maintain it.

Your situation is very sad. That doesn’t make it reasonable to force or coerce others to accept medical interventions as a protective measure for you. Their first responsibility is to themselves and they have a right to resist healthcare measures they have not consented to.

Again, despite your best efforts to paint me as a Nazi , I haven't said people should be forcibly vaccinated. I know that doesn't fit the little picture you are painting.
However, destruction of herd immunity puts me and people like me at specific and genuine risk of death. Much like you drink driving.

However, destruction of herd immunity puts me and people like me at specific and genuine risk of death. Much like you drink driving.

Total nonsense. If I get behind the wheel of a car drunk and hit you and you die, I killed you. If I am unvaccinated and you catch measles from me, measles killed you. Diseases are a reality of the natural world. It isn’t my responsibility to pump myself full of drugs I don’t want in order to prevent you contracting them.

I sympathise with you, but you are utterly wrong.

I the states you have to have the chicken pox vac to be able to start school.
No one I know even really knows their is a vaccine.

It isn’t my responsibility to pump myself full of drugs I don’t want in order to prevent you contracting them.

Somewhat hyperbolic, don't you think?

And I disagree. I think that unless you've chosen to live on an island and totally separate yourself from the benefits of living in society, you do have a responsibility to your fellow humans and that it isn't acceptable for you to increase their chances of harm.

Bellini to be fair it was you who invoked Goodwin's Law. All hercule said is that you can end up in a bad place if you take away bodily autonomy. That can apply as much to countries which deny women contraception/abortion or the historical forced 'treatment' of homosexuality as it does to Nazi Germany.

Is the only reason you don't drink drive because it is illegal?
If an antivaxxer deliberately create a situation where the measles bug flourishes and kills me, would they bear no responsibility for creating that situation.

It should be compulsory enforced by law. These idiots are putting other children at risk as well as there own children.

*Somewhat hyperbolic, don't you think?

And I disagree. I think that unless you've chosen to live on an island and totally separate yourself from the benefits of living in society, you do have a responsibility to your fellow humans and that it isn't acceptable for you to increase their chances of harm.*

It isn’t hyperbolic at all. I am not increasing anything. I am simply not choosing to decrease their risk of harm. Because - again - I have a right to choose what drugs I put into my body.

@Aderyn19 , I think we all know what @herculepoirot2 was implying.

If an antivaxxer deliberately create a situation where the measles bug flourishes and kills me, would they bear no responsibility for creating that situation

They are deliberately creating the situation. They are walking around in the body they were born with, breaking no laws, not wishing harm on you. You want to compare this to breaking the law. So you want a person not taking the drugs that would protect you to be deemed a criminal?

Did someone mention Godwin’s Law?

But an antivaxxer is increasing something. You don't see that because your bubble doesn't allow it.

*not deliberately creating

Naturally occurring diseases are not the same as drink driving. Although if someone knew they had measles and deliberately came round your house, knowing you were immunocompromised and didn't give you the option to refuse the visit, then yes, they would bear some responsibility.
Just going about their business unvaccinated is not the same thing.

But an antivaxxer is increasing something. You don't see that because your bubble doesn't allow it.

They are not. The increased risk is due to your compromised immune system, not their body in its natural state.

I am vaccinated. But if you threw a new drug at me and told me I had to take it because otherwise I would be responsible for your death, I would say no, and not politely. You don’t have that right.

That is what you call victim blaming.
It wasn't my fault I undermined herd immunity through my actions, it was those pesky immunocompromised people expecting social responsibility.

bellinisurge

Victim blaming? You would not be anybody’s victim because they exercised their legitimate rights as a human being.

bellinisurge

Let’s try this one. I need a new kidney. You have one. Give me yours or you’re killing me.

Doesn’t work, does it?

Price worth paying for your libertarian ideology, more like.

Will children whose parents failed to get them vaccinated and then get measles and suffer permanent damage, such as deafness, as a consequence, be able to sue their parents for damages?

But nobody vaccinated their child to be socially responsible. It's a happy side effect of protecting their own children. Anti vaxers believe they are also protecting their own children. They aren't trying to hurt you
I don't think their absence of action can be held responsible for your pre existing health condition.