UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

Anti vaxxers annoy me too op. Isn't immigration an issue here too though? Forgive me if I'm being ignorant.

• @ErrolTheDragon I didn’t believe the anti vaxxers, parents at the time didn’t know what the hell to believe. I don’t mean to sound patronising or disparaging, but you really had to be there.*

I was. My DD is 20.

‘Sure. But it is my risk to take or not to take. If I decide I don’t want any more water, nobody has the right to force me to drink it unless I lack the capacity to make decisions.’

Cool, I’m gonna start ignoring traffic lights and driving as fast as I want, if I decide I don’t want to obey traffic laws nobody has the right to force me unless I lack the capacity to make decisions.

It should be compulsory unless there is medical evidence to say otherwise ie known reactions to ingredients etc.

It could be linked to several areas like schooling, access to NHS services and child benefit etc.

Cool, I’m gonna start ignoring traffic lights and driving as fast as I want, if I decide I don’t want to obey traffic laws nobody has the right to force me unless I lack the capacity to make decisions.

They are laws. You have to obey them. It isn’t the law that I have to vaccinate my child, and actually, forcing me to do so is breaking the law.

I think ultimately this comes down to whether or not you believe parents have the right to cause harm to their children.

Antivaxxers believe they do have that right.

Provaxxers believe they don't.

I think ultimately this comes down to whether or not you believe parents have the right to cause harm to their children.

Anti-vaxxers (however misguided) want to protect their children, so it comes down to whether you believe parents have the right to decide how to do that.

‘They are laws. You have to obey them. It isn’t the law that I have to vaccinate my child, and actually, forcing me to do so is breaking the law.’

I can’t wait for them to make it law. They will if the current trend continues. Seriously though, why are you enabling the anti-vaccination cause if you aren’t a member of their cult?!

Seriously though, why are you enabling the anti-vaccination cause if you aren’t a member of their cult?!

I believe in the right to autonomy in matters of the body. It’s as simple as that.

I think ultimately this comes down to whether or not you believe parents have the right to cause harm to their children.
And other people's children and the medically vulnerable. If the state intervenes in the case of JW children in need of blood transfusions, I see no reason for it not to intervene with Anti-Vaxxers, who endanger others as well as their own children.

‘I believe in the right to autonomy in matters of the body. It’s as simple as that.’

Sounds like anti-vaxx buzzwords to me. ‘I’m
not anti-vaxx but....’

Shouting YOU’RE A THICK CULT MEMBER AND WE CAN FORCE YOU TO VACCINATE is not going to win any hearts or minds.
Far better to understand the reasons and educate/negotiate. It doesn’t mean you agree, just that you understand.

Is a single measles jab available if you pay for it?
Just thinking ahead as I will hopefully have a 6/7m old next summer and we'll be going to Italy that has quite a few measles cases.

Sounds like anti-vaxx buzzwords to me. ‘I’m
not anti-vaxx but....’

Really? You think “autonomy” is a buzzword? So you are happy for people to force medical treatments on you?

‘Shouting YOU’RE A THICK CULT MEMBER AND WE CAN FORCE YOU TO VACCINATE is not going to win any hearts or minds.
Far better to understand the reasons and educate/negotiate. It doesn’t mean you agree, just that you understand.’

No I really don’t understand why anyone would willingly endanger their own children and everyone else’s. I often ask anti-vaxxers for sources/peer reviewed evidence to help me understand but I get ignored or linked to YouTube. You only have to go on an anti-vaxx FB page to see the cult-like behaviour of those spreading misinformation.

There comes a point where people need to accept it's not 'opinion', its science. It has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that vaccines work. Therefore, they work (this is on a population level not individual).

Do anti vaxxers have the right to cause harm to their children just because they 'believe' they're protecting them?

There comes a point where people need to accept it's not 'opinion', its science. It has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that vaccines work. Therefore, they work (this is on a population level not individual).

But the right to make the decision exists on the individual level, not the population level.

FGS leave @herculepoirot2 alone!
They’ve said they vaccinated their kids, but do not agree with making vaccinations compulsory. They are essentially pro-choice about vaccinations. This is not a mutually exclusive view point.

It is no different from a person who is pro-choice for abortions, but would not ever have one themself.

There are lots of rights that people believe should be a personal choice.

Yes, and parents have the right to make those decisions. Decisions come with consequences. If a parent chooses not to vaccinate (as is their right) they can find alternative childcare and schooling for their child.

‘But the right to make the decision exists on the individual level, not the population level.’

At a certain point it becomes negligent and misguided though. If I withheld medical treatment because I read something on the internet and ignored my doctor then my child died I would most certainly be prosecuted. I don’t see how it should be any different if your child dies or is seriously harmed by a preventable disease if you failed to vaccinate.

Decisions come with consequences.

When you are acting within your rights, that shouldn’t be the case.

My ds has measles when he was a little baby. Spots absolutely everywhere, it wasn't nice.
Very scary thinking about what could have happened but he seemed to make a full recovery luckily.
I remember the exact moment I think he caught it as there seemed to be no other confirmed cases in our area.
People inc healthcare professionals seemed annoyed at me for not getting him vaccinated until I told them his age and that his vaccines weren't even due as he was too young.
I was annoyed at other people who obv hadn't vaccinated their own children which put my baby as risk.
There should definitely be more pressure to get it done.
Too many people are google/Facebook fake news experts with the wrong info.

Extraordinary that some people whose scientific education mostly stopped at GCSE Science think they know better.

Damn right!

And that people will ignore experienced, expert advice from trained professionals in favour of SomeIdiotOnTheInternet who tells them to rub their lesions with the cut edge of a raw potato or similar crap.

Anti-vaxxers (however misguided) want to protect their children, so it comes down to whether you believe parents have the right to decide how to do that.

And don't we all agree that the right to decide how to protect your children only exists up to a point? A parent might misguidedly think that they were protecting their child by performing exorcisms on them, by feeding them nothing but raw pea and spinach smoothies for the first three years of their lives, by isolating them from their peers, by joining a sex cult, by microdosing LSD etc etc etc. That doesn't make those things ok.

We know that not vaccinating is harmful. It's not an opinion. It's a known, proven fact.

So again - that's what it comes down to. Do you believe parents should be allowed to harm their kids?

Not vaccinated your child does not cause them harm. It causes a small risk. But parents can make lots of choices that also increase risk of harm....
Just like letting your kid take up horseback riding...
Just like letting your kid ride a bicycle..
Just like going swimming at a beach...