UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

At a certain point it becomes negligent and misguided though. If I withheld medical treatment because I read something on the internet and ignored my doctor then my child died I would most certainly be prosecuted. I don’t see how it should be any different if your child dies or is seriously harmed by a preventable disease if you failed to vaccinate.

In one circumstance you would be withholding treatment that was medically necessary for your child’s continued life. In the other, you would be withholding treatment that might prevent a disease, or might not, and comes with some risk. Yes, as I acknowledge above, a court can step in if you do the former. They won’t step in to enforce preventative measures.

Do you believe parents should be allowed to harm their kids?

It doesn’t come down to that. Not vaccinating isn’t infecting with measles. It is taking the risk that your child will contract measles. That risk may not be justified in your mind, but it would have to be demonstrated in court that it presented the risk of significant harm to your child before a court would override the principle of bodily autonomy. I don’t think this will happen.

Dd is almost 16, so although Wakefield had been discredited by the time of her first mmr, the internet was in full swing and full of conspiracy theories in agreement with him and individual cases. But I’m still of the opinion only a fucking idiot would have decided not to vaccinate as the result of it. Even if you took his research at face value it’s beyond me why anyone would think the risk of autism is worse than the risk of serious illness.

I’m 38, so in theory should have been vaccinated. But ironically I had whooping cough, and they got delayed. Incidentally, a close friend who grew up in the same area came very close to death in the same outbreak after his vaccinations were delayed from being unwell on the day. I have scary, vague memories of whooping cough, some memories of having measles as a toddler, and barring the delirious periods pretty accurate memories of rubella.

Apart from the miserable time when I was ill, and being left with short term compromised immunity, which meant I caught everything else for a while after, they didn’t do any lasting harm. My cousin wasn’t so lucky and couldn’t have children. Not to mention those outside the closer circle who I now know came off a lot worse.

All my research did when dd was due her jabs was convince me how lucky I was to have survived unscathed. She did have some of the listed side effects from the first mmr and the pre school booster, but nothing comparable to actually having the illnesses.

Still, people are often stupid and ignorant in a way that has nothing to do with iq or the basic maths skills to interpret primary level percentages or simple stats. So I do think there is an argument in favour of acknowledging the fears and then discrediting them. Or if necessary pointing out that even if you believe Wakefield, a tiny risk of autism is a better outcome than the greater risks of the illnesses.

Not sure banning people from schools or public places is the solution though. Imo a public campaign/ awareness would be better, it worked with the whooping cough adverts, anti vaccers need to be made unacceptable like drink driving was.

A child is more likely to be injured or killed due to riding a bicycle or swimming at a beach than because they were not vaccinated against MMR.
Should we prosecute those Families too? After all, they chose to let their kid ride a bicycle, they took their kid to the beach and encouraged them to go into the sea.

Ok JenniR29 we have different approaches to getting the situation back under control with herd immunity.
I know how frustrating it can be - I lost an old friend because of The increasingly ‘out there’ claims she made about terrorist attacks, Big Pharma etc. She had a science degree and background too and I really don’t know where it went so wrong for her that she couldn’t objectively weigh up statistics and evidence.
The hardliners are still a minority though. We need to make sure we counteract their nonsense with facts, over and over.
As it’s still not 100% that a child that gets measles etc will suffer any bad after-effects I think people have become very blasé in this generation as they don’t know any different. They don’t know anyone with deafness or sight impairment or neurological issues caused by measles. Maybe the tide will turn when they do - which is awful but it’s the way this is all going.

All decisions come with consequences. The consequence of not vaccinating a child currently falls on other people’s children and the immuno suppressed. Keeping non vaccinated children out of school would help to protect others from the consequences of that one parent’s decision.

Not vaccinated your child does not cause them harm. It causes a small risk.

It's a small risk at the moment because the majority of parents do vaccinate their kids. What if the antivax agenda takes hold and the majority of people stop vaccinating? Suddenly the risk is very large. 8 million children died every year from measles before the vaccination was introduced in 1963.

Keeping non vaccinated children out of school would help to protect others from the consequences of that one parent’s decision.

And breach their right to a state education.

Personally I'd like to see vaccines become mandatory before being allowed to go to school. This will protect the children that can't be vaccinated for health reasons

It's ridiculous that a kennel won't accept your dog/cat unless vaccinations are up to date - but your precious child doesn't receive similar protection from the education authorities.

‘In one circumstance you would be withholding treatment that was medically necessary for your child’s continued life. In the other, you would be withholding treatment that might prevent a disease, or might not, and comes with some risk. Yes, as I acknowledge above, a court can step in if you do the former. They won’t step in to enforce preventative measures.‘

The principle is the same though. A lot of parents quite simply do not possess the medical knowledge to make that important a decision for their children. Do they ‘believe’ they are doing the right thing? Of course. Are they necessarily correct? No.

This is why we need legislation written by doctors and immunologists before diseases from the 1800’s come back with a vengeance.

It's a small risk at the moment because the majority of parents do vaccinate their kids. What if the antivax agenda takes hold and the majority of people stop vaccinating? Suddenly the risk is very large. 8 million children died every year from measles before the vaccination was introduced in 1963

I didn’t know that. That’s staggering. Worldwide, I assume? My understanding from reading up is that the chance of dying from measles, once contracted, is about 0.2%.

But nevertheless, not vaccinating your child is not actively harming them. It is a choice.

I didn’t know that. That’s staggering.

I can't even begin to tell you how easy it was to google that statistic.

At the moment they have the right to a state education. Hopefully, vaccination or a valid medical exemption certificate will be required to access state education.

And the risk of death is significantly increased by malnutrition.

From what I’m gathering many people believe the increase in measles cases is due to the level of unvaccinated immigrants coming into the country.

Is there a thought that maybe current government wants us to think like this because of Brexit looming?

I can't even begin to tell you how easy it was to google that statistic.

Good, I’m glad your broadband is working.

Hopefully, vaccination or a valid medical exemption certificate will be required to access state education.

I believe if that is brought in that it will be overturned, because it is against the rights of the child.

I don’t think the antivaxx agenda will take hold more than it has tbh, provided the medical world continues to state the facts and simple statistics to reassure people.
Withdrawing rights to education will not help as then more people will dig their heels in, disengage from state help and it is their children who will suffer. Do we really want a significant class of children home educated not because of benefits that may bring but because their parents hate and distrust the State?

Tell parents they need a vaccination certificate to take children on holiday. That should stop a few antivaxers.
I really despise antivaxers. They're OK with your child taking the perceived risk of vaccination then rely on herd immunisation.

@Saucery

I think sadly we have become a victim of our own success when it comes to vaccinations. It’s the ultimate in first world privilege that one can choose not to vaccinate because they feel safe from potentially lethal diseases.

Before I had children I used to be of the opinion that you could change minds with gentle persuasion but the fact that we have lost our measles free status terrifies me (I have a newborn and a toddler who hasn’t yet has the second MMR dose).

‘It's ridiculous that a kennel won't accept your dog/cat unless vaccinations are up to date - but your precious child doesn't receive similar protection from the education authorities.’

Yes, I have to take my dogs vaccination cards with me to check my dogs into kennels. They don’t want to risk the spread of disease in close confines. Very socially responsible of them isn’t it?

Hopefully, vaccination or a valid medical exemption certificate will be required to access state education.

I don't think it's fair to punish children for having bad parents. They can't help it.

I think financial penalties for those who can afford them, and mandatory parenting classes (with a focus on the science behind vaccination) would be better. There may be other suitable sanctions as well.

I also think more transparency in information about vaccines would go a long way. There have been vaccine failures in the past and medicines failure to acknowledge these mistakes have caused the environment of distrust which feeds the anti-vaxx mentality.
Exaggerating the impact & public health risks of being unvaccinated also do not help convince anti-vaxxers to vaccinate.

I won’t use the MMR. I would have the single measures vaccine though.

JenniR29 totally agree with that. It is a privilege and soon there won’t be the generation left to directly tell us just how bad it was before we had vaccination programmes. Every family knew someone disabled by polio, measles, rubella or killed by them.