About sending DD to nursery targeting deprived kids?

[EssentialHummus]

I sorted a nursery place for DD(2) literally years ago, but that nursery forgot to tell me that actually they no longer offer the morning only times I wanted, and are still dicking us around.

I SAH and work when DD sleeps. All I want is a couple of morning sessions at a nursery for her to do different things and get used to a setting, and for me to crack on with work and get a bit of headspace. Everywhere is full, long waiting lists, don't do half days etc.

Yesterday I took her to a stay and play session at a nursery we'd never been to. Staff were lovely and clearly experienced from how they interacted with the kids, setting was small but full of creative areas/toys etc, nice garden. I asked the manager if they had nursery places and they have two morning sessions free from September (they are otherwise full). I could have kissed her!

But:
We live in an area that's 50% £££££ houses and 50% acute social deprivation, and this nursery falls in the latter, and I have the impression that most of the kids are probably from deprived families. And deprived in our area doesn't mean "can't afford Boden", it means "can't afford breakfast".

Their stated aim is to "support new parents and families facing difficulty". Their website talks about their commitment to providing 1:1 family support and outreach. The fee is really low. So we're not the target audience, for lack of a better term.

I asked for feedback on the local FB group, and the two mums who replied with kids there are women I vaguely know and who I'm pretty sure have mild learning difficulties. (They're both nice, fwiw, and liked the nursery.)

Not sure what I'm asking really. I'm inclined to take the place - it's a great nursery, near home, lovely staff, cheap, and DD is bright and happy and doesn't need much from nursery other than the chance for a bit of independent play. I'm sure some smartass will come along shortly to say I'm worried about DD "catching poor" - I'm not, but sending her to a nursery that specifically targets families in difficulty? Would you? AIBU?

I wouldn’t. It is possible a lot of the children could have behaviour problems or learning difficulties which will mean the staff are stretched and the quality of learning poor. These are only maybes, but speaking from experience.
Noting to do with mixing with poor children. At that age it’s irrelevant.

My sil uses a nursery like this. They are a very supportive setting and she is very happy with it, although not their target audience.

I think that’s a fair way of putting it alien.

To the PP (apologies, I can’t scroll up!) it’s useful to read about your similar experience as a child.

@Wingingthis this!! The behaviour and attitude of middle class children (and parents!) is often appalling. It's one of the toughest parts of my job.
I deliberately sent my own dc to an inner city school with an extremely diverse catchment, never regretted my decision.

If they have empty spaces then surely both sides benefit if you take it?

At such a young age I don't think your DD will "catch poor" - the differences get more obvious as they get older I think.

I would send her and see how it works out, hopefully it will be great. If not, well you tried and it buys you some time to find somewhere else. I think it's a lovely idea for you to help out a bit more financially if you decide to do that.

Talk to them about your concerns over the place being taken away if another child in greater need comes along, I doubt they'd kick yours out.

You have been offered a place, you like the setting... go for it.

My son attends a SureStart nursery and I think it’s lovely. The staff are more qualified/higher levels of training than the private nurseries I looked at. This was important to me because my son has ASD and the staff have been amazing at supporting him and also supporting me in the EHCP and school transition process. I travel a fair distance to take him there because all of the Sure Starts in my (more affluent) area have closed down due to funding cuts.

The nursery is in a fairly deprived area and a lot of children come from homes that need extra support. Also a lot of EAL families and other SEN families like mine. I’d say this particular nursery targets the demographic Sure Start is aimed at. Sadly they struggle with funding each year and it’s a constant battle to remain open.

As far as I can tell, the children all seem lovely. A bunch of ordinary preschoolers and the parents seem lovely too. Low income doesn’t have to lead to feral children.

Where a school or nursery is in a deprived area they are likely to receive more PIP and have enough money for really nice stuff for the kids. I'd also expect the staff to be very skilled at the wider health and wellbeing aspect of care (see: health inequalities). So really if they have places, you like them and it suits you, I don't see a problem at all.

I would send her.
I think from the nurseries point of view a 'not deprived' DC taking the place is better than it sitting empty and receiving no funding at all...so I wouldn't feel guilty.

She will have a key worker anyway so her individual needs will be met, and any good nursery will know how to differentiate activities when they need to.

Send her. Hopefully it will give your daughter a rich and diverse experience and mean she ends up more tolerant in her own adult life. You can’t keep her in the Boden bubble forever. Plus from what you’ve said it sounds like a great nursery.

JFC! Poorer people don't exist in order to be enriching experiences for middle class children. This kind of supposedly "woke" thinking is so, so, so patronising and fucked up. The nursery exists to help people who don't have the financial means to support their families well without it. Taking a place when you don't need it could mean that somebody who does need it, does with out. But by all means, prioritise a middle class kid's "need" for enriching and diverse experiences over a poorer kid's need for breakfast!

@Imustbemad00
I wouldn’t. It is possible a lot of the children could have behaviour problems or learning difficulties which will mean the staff are stretched and the quality of learning poor.
That’s right, because rich kids are perfect!! What an ignorant nasty attitude 🤬

I'm with @Vasya on this one. If the place is available, go for it. In every school I've worked in there is a huge diversity of children - some better off, some whose parents are stone cold broke. The current school I'm in serves a very deprived area (more free school meals than not). As school recognised children might not have access to books/creative play at home, we almost 'over compensate' to ensure the kids have these experiences more at school. This doesn't sound too different to the nursery you're looking at, which can only serve your DD well.

I reckon give it a try - she might absolutely love it.

Well this thread had enlightened me to the fact that only poor kids have learning difficulties or complex needs... 🙄

That’s right, because rich kids are perfect!! What an ignorant nasty attitude 🤬

I find it frustrating when people leap on the defensive and start throwing insults around. Is it not reasonable to say that poverty exacerbates other social difficulties? Is it not reasonable to say that children from economically deprived households are often deprived in other, cultural ways?

Stop imagining prejudice.

The SureStart programme implementation was phenomenally successful for a government initiative and the Oxford University assessment recorded the many benefits:

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Implementing%2520Sure%2520Start%2520Childrens%2520Centres%2520-%2520final_0.pdf
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/485346/DFE-RR495_Evaluation_of_children_s_centres_in_England__the_impact_of_children_s_centres.pdf

"In addition, centres that experienced budget increases and service expansion between 2011-2013 showed better effects on outcomes than those that experienced cuts and restructuring. This is an important message given the context in which children’s centres were operating when this evaluation took place."

It was spun as not achieving its aims because it was a 'labour' programme and savagely cut by the tories:
www.suttontrust.com/research-paper/sure-start-childrens-centres-england/

As a user of these in 2009-10 I'd observe that a significant benefit was the realisation that you're not alone, everyone has problems/worries with babies - it's normal and - relevant to the thread - problems are mostly not because you're poor - seeing "affluent" patent(s) with the same issues as yourself is beneficial in all sorts of ways.

I would have thought the nursery is much better placed to know if the place should be offered to the OP than anyone on the outside.

Agonising about taking a place away from a more needy person is misplaced energy, and a bit patronising to the nursery admissions people - they almost certainly know how to do their job and cater for the needs of the community appropriately.

This is an excellent opportunity for you OP, and for you to become involved in the life of the nursery.

I wouldnt as I would be worried about taking a place from a family who needs it.

Yes I critiqued this paper at the time.

Basically, they took an area like Tower Hamlets were deprivation means that kids are at risk of A,B,C and then measured whether the kids who use Surestart have reduced risk of A,B,C. The issue is that in a gentrified area like TH, you need to know if the kids that went to Surestart were the same kids who are poor and at risk of A,B,C. That why on closer examination, it didn't produce the results necessary to justify continued funding according to our Government.

It could have been avoided if services were means tested and everyone that used Surestart was at risk of being or already below the poverty line.

@herculepoirot2
Instead of copying what suits you, use my whole quote, the PP stated the nursery would have behavioural issues etc; that IS a prejudiced attitude.

Yeah send her
What you think would happen?

I remember,for instance, one study found that most kids in this one SS nursery were in there because their parents were already employed or studying rather than people using the service to access study or work. So these were people who had already taken those initial steps because they have some level of social privilege.

It is possible a lot of the children could have behaviour problems or learning difficulties which will mean the staff are stretched and the quality of learning poor.

There’s the whole quote, Book. It is possible that...

@Imustbemad00 why is it possible the children will have behaviour problems???

There are well-established links between poverty and behavioural problems:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5615518/

That's the experience of people on the ground too Kewlwifee I know quite a few children's centre managers/workers and they often struggled with getting the people they wanted into sessions as they were full of MC parents and felt intimidating.