About sending DD to nursery targeting deprived kids?

[EssentialHummus]

I sorted a nursery place for DD(2) literally years ago, but that nursery forgot to tell me that actually they no longer offer the morning only times I wanted, and are still dicking us around.

I SAH and work when DD sleeps. All I want is a couple of morning sessions at a nursery for her to do different things and get used to a setting, and for me to crack on with work and get a bit of headspace. Everywhere is full, long waiting lists, don't do half days etc.

Yesterday I took her to a stay and play session at a nursery we'd never been to. Staff were lovely and clearly experienced from how they interacted with the kids, setting was small but full of creative areas/toys etc, nice garden. I asked the manager if they had nursery places and they have two morning sessions free from September (they are otherwise full). I could have kissed her!

But:
We live in an area that's 50% £££££ houses and 50% acute social deprivation, and this nursery falls in the latter, and I have the impression that most of the kids are probably from deprived families. And deprived in our area doesn't mean "can't afford Boden", it means "can't afford breakfast".

Their stated aim is to "support new parents and families facing difficulty". Their website talks about their commitment to providing 1:1 family support and outreach. The fee is really low. So we're not the target audience, for lack of a better term.

I asked for feedback on the local FB group, and the two mums who replied with kids there are women I vaguely know and who I'm pretty sure have mild learning difficulties. (They're both nice, fwiw, and liked the nursery.)

Not sure what I'm asking really. I'm inclined to take the place - it's a great nursery, near home, lovely staff, cheap, and DD is bright and happy and doesn't need much from nursery other than the chance for a bit of independent play. I'm sure some smartass will come along shortly to say I'm worried about DD "catching poor" - I'm not, but sending her to a nursery that specifically targets families in difficulty? Would you? AIBU?

Hopefully it will give your daughter a rich and diverse experience and mean she ends up more tolerant in her own adult life.

This!

Also at the nursery I work at we have a cooking fund which is a voluntary donation to help buy malleable ingredients for the kids. If you are feeling bad about the place maybe you can see if they have a similar thing and donate to it or get some extra toys for the nursery to support them as you are in a position to.

@JollyGiraffe

I think people don't understand the problem. I had this when I tried to explain to my friend (she's from a very rich family, so is he, and he's a pilot) why she shouldn't take advantage of Surestart services like baby yoga and things like that. The way she saw it is that these are cheap/free services for all "mums" as it is hard being a mum. I never understood why those things are strictly means tested.

OP I think it's generally a good thing to break down class barriers by bringing kids from different backgrounds together at a young age. I would go for it.

That was @kewlwifee

To answer the op, I don’t think there’s any reason not take up the space.
If they are not oversubscribed, your fees will be contributing to the running of the nursery and maintenance of provision in long term.

@Kewlwifee
Surestart hasnt 'failed' . There are still plenty of Surestart centres around, however those that have closed did so because of funding cuts by the Conservative government to local councils. Nothing to do with who used one centres.

They justified pulling the funding because it wasn't doing what it set out to do which was improve childhood outcomes for those in or near the poverty threshold. Part of the reason it didn't is because they didn't get access to it.

I woulld imagine means testing for thing like SureStart would a) be disproportionately expensive to administer b) stigmatising and c) not help break down barriers to social mobility.

I don't know if they'd work like this, but could you take up the place with an agreement that if a family who's their target customers turns up needing it, you'd vacate with x weeks notice?

The responses on here were always going to be “What are you worried about” replete with lots of

But actually, there is a correlation between social deprivation and language poverty, and there are more likely to be more and more serious behavioural issues than you would find in a nursery not targeting a deprived demographic. I grew up as poor as poor can be and I am not embarrassed to say that those things are true. The OP may have valid concerns.

I kind of work directly in this field. Specifically around research that monitors the efficiency of Government interventions. Research showed Surestart wasn't improving childhood outcomes specifically around health and education. But it couldn't if a large number of children using the services (especially in places like London) weren't actually part of the targeted demographic.

What am I worried about? It's hard to articulate really.

Taking a place from someone who needs it more, I guess - but then, it's two weeks before the start of term (so whoever needs a place has one?) and the manager seemed frankly delighted to offer it. It's £12 per morning paid (we'd be paying). Presumably subsidised. I Googled and they received National Lottery and other funding. And they have a vague affiliation to the church school next door, so that may also provide funding.

More generally? I don't know if sharing a setting with a child/children in a family with complex needs will somehow affect my DD's experience of the place to the extent that it'd make a difference. I don't think it would but the place just feels a bit too good to be true.

Oh earlier I was meant to say ,"are NOT strictly means tested".

@Kewlwifee
No, that's not correct. I work very closely with SureStart. The evidence shows that in areas where they still have the centres, outcomes are improving. I've certainly never seen evidence that the people that the centres were set up for can't access their services because 'rich' people were taking up all the places.

OP I think you're overthinking it. It's only a couple of mornings a week. Take the place, donate some cash to the nursery fund if you feel bad.

I went to such a preschool - my mum worked there. I'd send her. Yes the kids will probably be a little rough around the edges if you're used to the Boden sect, but I think mixing with people from all walks of life builds character and resilience. Try it and see, if it's really bad and your child is coming home foul mouthed with a hankering for white lightening then you just take her out

Also at the nursery I work at we have a cooking fund which is a voluntary donation to help buy malleable ingredients for the kids. If you are feeling bad about the place maybe you can see if they have a similar thing and donate to it or get some extra toys for the nursery to support them as you are in a position to.

Yup. The manager was telling me about the 50p / week charge for snacks, to help them towards the costs, and I thought that actually this may all just fit together nicely - DD gets a place for the time we want, the place is there, and we're in a position to contribute meaningfully to the life of the nursery.

stayathomer

There were some very specific issues. I don’t want to say more but one of the local schools also has a major issues and so many parents have withdrawn their children, it’s become a worsening cycle.

Send her. If you are paying for your sessions privately you will be helping to support the funded sessions.

If you want to provide additional support as you feel like you may be taking something away from a vulnerable child you can always see if they require support with consumables e.g. nappies and wipes that some parents might struggle to provide.

If it’s likely this is one of the few spaces left then morally I think you need to leave that place for someone who can’t afford an alternative.

More generally I could understand your concerns if you were talking about a secondary school in very deprived area but I don’t see the issue at preschool. The only slight issue might be that your dc is likely to go to another primary school from the children at this setting. So your child would not have the comfort of moving up to ‘big school’ with familiar faces. However in my experience they make new friends at primary anyway.

Your DD will benefit from being exposed to a more socially diverse group from an early age.

My eldest son went to primary school in a very mixed area of London. His friends ranged from the kids of doctors, to refugees & junkies.

The kids were all lovely and so were their parents/caregivers (one lived with his gran, one had a delightful nanny).

I agree with sending her and supporting the nursery as much as you can (snack fund, seeing if they need spare clothing/nappy donations etc)

@herculepoirot2
I completely agree with you, to a certain extent. So what would the solution be? Bearing in mind I have always worked in schools that are in the lowest socio economic bracket in terms of deprivation, I see things from both sides. Children whose families are constantly in crisis, needing support both financially, practically and emotionally alongside traditional families with 2.4 children, both parents working, etc etc etc. Each child benefits from working alongside other different children. A child swears, they soon learn that it's not appropriate. A child hits, takes things, etc etc again they learn what is acceptable and what isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I know we don't live in this utopian world where only the best bits of behaviour rub off on each other and everyone is lovely to each other. But when parents make a conscious decision to isolate their children from those who are less well off, less well behaved, less clean, less well parented than their own they are compounding the belief that their child is somehow better, more important, more deserving. Because they have 'better' parents. And so the cycle continues.

@EssentialHummus

My DS goes to a quite unique nursery- insofar as it’s on a university campus/ part of a university, but also serves two of the most disadvantaged postcodes in the city.

Half of his friends are the kids of lecturers, visiting academics, high level university management etc. Some are students children (not many.) The other half are kids from the local estate, many are living in food poverty, have parents out work etc.

There are quite a few kids at the nursery with additional needs, and quite a few who are from EAL families.

And if you walked into the room, you wouldn’t be able to tell which kid came from which background. My DS certainly can’t, and for me that’s a great strength of the setting- that he part of a diverse community (which a good nursery is- a community) that reflects the makeup of the real world he’ll grow up to move through.

I don’t know why you’d be worried about this, particularly at this age. Your child’s experience will be enriched- I wonder if there’s some unconscious bias at work on your part though?

We all know what you are worried about.

You are worried that some of the children from the acute socially deprived area will have some issues that will affect/have an impact on your child.

Potentially some of the children from nursery will be surrounded with drug addiction, alcohol dependency, mental health issues, social services involvement, safety problems and parents that are not going to raise their children in the same way you intend to. All of these things are more prevalent areas of deprivation. Some of the parents have had to develop coping mechanisms that may not be in line with yours.

There will be birthday parties and playdates to navigate, and you will have to work out which parents are together, and which ones are not.

It is for you to make the decision op, but consider all of the angles. Your child is of a very impressionable age, these are her foundation years.

It is great that the nursery seem so proactive and positive.

OP, if I've got this right, your concern is similar to the reason why the government are closing the SureStart Centres - settings that were put in place to help children in deprived households were being filled up by middle class / otherwise "less needy" (don't shoot me, I get that all parents may have issues that need support) children just because they were free / cheap sessions.

If you've checked that they won't take her place away if a more deserving child comes along, go for it. It sounds a lovely setting and if it's saving you money, it's a bonus.