About sending DD to nursery targeting deprived kids?

[EssentialHummus]

I sorted a nursery place for DD(2) literally years ago, but that nursery forgot to tell me that actually they no longer offer the morning only times I wanted, and are still dicking us around.

I SAH and work when DD sleeps. All I want is a couple of morning sessions at a nursery for her to do different things and get used to a setting, and for me to crack on with work and get a bit of headspace. Everywhere is full, long waiting lists, don't do half days etc.

Yesterday I took her to a stay and play session at a nursery we'd never been to. Staff were lovely and clearly experienced from how they interacted with the kids, setting was small but full of creative areas/toys etc, nice garden. I asked the manager if they had nursery places and they have two morning sessions free from September (they are otherwise full). I could have kissed her!

But:
We live in an area that's 50% £££££ houses and 50% acute social deprivation, and this nursery falls in the latter, and I have the impression that most of the kids are probably from deprived families. And deprived in our area doesn't mean "can't afford Boden", it means "can't afford breakfast".

Their stated aim is to "support new parents and families facing difficulty". Their website talks about their commitment to providing 1:1 family support and outreach. The fee is really low. So we're not the target audience, for lack of a better term.

I asked for feedback on the local FB group, and the two mums who replied with kids there are women I vaguely know and who I'm pretty sure have mild learning difficulties. (They're both nice, fwiw, and liked the nursery.)

Not sure what I'm asking really. I'm inclined to take the place - it's a great nursery, near home, lovely staff, cheap, and DD is bright and happy and doesn't need much from nursery other than the chance for a bit of independent play. I'm sure some smartass will come along shortly to say I'm worried about DD "catching poor" - I'm not, but sending her to a nursery that specifically targets families in difficulty? Would you? AIBU?

In my experience it's extremely good for kids to be around difference. They will hopefully grow up to be more tolerant and accepting of those who are not exactly the same as them. Go for it OP. Judge the place on the staff & how happy your child seems to be there.

If they're offering you a place, this is on them and not you. Bear in mind if they are receiving funding and haven't filled all their places, that's not great for them either. Maybe work out what the going rate for two mornings is and donate the difference, in cash or in kind.

But when parents make a conscious decision to isolate their children from those who are less well off, less well behaved, less clean, less well parented than their own they are compounding the belief that their child is somehow better, more important, more deserving. Because they have 'better' parents. And so the cycle continues.

I agree entirely that it doesn’t help the deprived children not to be exposed to the less deprived. But that wasn’t the question. The question was whether the OP should have any concerns for her own child. If we narrow the focus to her child, I am not sure this option advantages her.

And I say that as someone who chose to work with disadvantaged children. I am more than willing to help them. But what is best for my child, in my view, is to go to the nursery that best suits her, not best suits the other children. I am not trying to be harsh here, but she is my first priority.

I’m putting my hard hat on here. I wouldn’t send my dc to a primary or secondary school targeting a disadvantaged demographic because they have the ability and support to do very well in school. I’ve worked in schools for disadvantaged children and I know how the resources, including teacher’s energy, is stretched thinner than thin.
At nursery, however, I think it can be an advantage. The bar is likely to be set a bit lower, really focusing on language skills, socialization, and play. Posher nurseries, imo, can get a bit carried away with Pinterest worthy crafts, and foreign languages. The support and kindness from other parents is just not found in middle class nurseries and schools.

Two weeks off, you’re not taking up someone else’s place. Mixing families of different backgrounds is a very positive thing.

If you’re not happy as time goes on, you can look for somewhere else, and you have the safety cushion of being able to take her home.

It improves outcomes for the kids that attend, but does nothing to actually improve outcomes in the demographic. Individuals benefit - not groups.

To disguise this, research was presented in a way that ignored the fact that many of the kids whose outcomes were said to be improved were not of the targeted demographic. So yes, it seemed like Surestart kids as a whole had improved outcomes BUT the actual kids in Surestart weren't all from the At Risk demographic anyway. So you hadn't "saved them" at all. They were already okay because they had parents with degrees and jobs and things like that even though they might have lived in say, Tower Hamlets, where poverty is rife.

That's why the funding was scrapped. I can't out myself here but I'm involved in this sort of thing at a very high level.

Just take it.
It suits you.
They have a space- not many takers for a space 2 mornings a week.
Your kid will learn loads. If you are intending to send them along to state school it will stand them in good stead..
You could make a voluntary donation that goes to the nursery.
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

I would imagine your small fee allows others who need it to go free. The education is likely to be good and the experience of diversity good for your dd. My daughters went to a similar place and one even got a full time place for people in need. I was in need because 2 under 2 was driving me mad, literally.

compounding the belief that their child is somehow better, more important, more deserving. Because they have 'better' parents. And so the cycle continues

It is not about compounding the belief that one child is more important than another, for some parents it is a matter of safety. It is retaining the ability to protect a child from harm. It is not such an issue in a nursery setting, but it becomes an increasingly very serious issue as the child goes through school, especially secondary school.

A lack of money is not the issue, if the children were being raised with love and care. Not having very much money is not an indicator of being a good parent or not, as you well know.
It is the families that are in constant crisis with drugs etc, and yes if your child is friends with children in that situation, it will have an increasing impact on them as they get older.
The solution does not lie with other parents turning a blind eye, it lies with a huge investment and support system for the families in crisis, a coherent plan to help them raise their own children (or not)0 with the funding needed to make it a success. Schools and nurseries have a big role to play.

You could always try it but I’d be a bit nervous. My friend thought she’d picked a lovely nursery until her little girl came back with some vile, horrid language. She wanted to know what was going on and the manager outlined the demographics and said there was little she could do re the language. She left immediately

WTF? Reported

if sharing a setting with a child/children in a family with complex needs will somehow affect my DD's experience

Complex needs aren't specifically limited to families considered to be living in deprivation. Lots of kids have complex needs linked to disability. Money won't cure my sines complex needs.

My son doesn't adversely affect the other kids in his setting by having complex needs.

At this age kids don't talk about the kind of thing that indicates a disparity in wealth. They talk about what they're doing there and then, their favourite kids characters etc. Thry won't notice.

I'm suds the nursery are happy to fill the places. So take them, make sure you always contribute to any fundraising stuff and sounds like she'll be happy there

I know what you mean OP, my DS went to a primary school like this, I didn't feel like I could use the breakfast club to get an early start work wise because it was free for children who may not have had breakfast otherwise. As a place of socialisation and learning though it was second to none. Very stimulating and the staff were so very professional and caring too.

The nursery sounds lovely, as do you for being concerned about taking the place, but I can't see any reason why you shouldn't take the place. There are plenty of good reasons why you should take it.

It has been offered to you, and it's only two mornings a week. Personally, I'd be worried about having to send my child to a school with a high level of deprivation, but at nursery level it's fine.

I don't think you need to worry about depriving someone of a place. They are happy to offer you a place, it's only two mornings a week. They may even be delighted to have another child, if they have empty places, as it is one more child to join in with all that socialising!

I'm not naive. My daughters both went to a primary school with a lot of very troubled kids. Sometimes I heard hair-raising and tragic things about what was going on in their families. As they got a bit older, there were sometimes some tricky conversations about how their friends' home lives were very different to ours. But your daughter is really young. Tiny children just love to play together and it's really not that complicated. Give it a try and see how things work out.

The only thing I would say is that there may be quite a strong culture of "supporting" parents. This may well come across as assuming that you lack the ability to do stuff like read with your child, feed her healthily etc. You just have to smile and nod and avoid feeling patronised if they are telling you stuff that seems very obvious.

It seems like you're in an area similar to where I live. I sent my dd to the council estate pre-school. I know friends in the affluent parts of town thought I was crazy (the school it is attached to has a high % free dinners and English as a second language) but it was our nearest nursery (I live on the estate) and it was far far nicer than the ones I looked at in the affluent areas. All the staff other than TAs are qualified teachers, it was much calmer with interesting toys and activities on offer.

This nursery was lovely and is completely overlooked by parents in the affluent areas. There are always people moaning about the lack of nursery spaces on our local fb group (particularly 30 hour spaces) yet whenever I mention dd's nursery having space I rarely receive a response (unlike the parents mentioning the expensive village nursery) and if I do it's 'oh, I didn't know there was a nursery there'. Parents just want their children to go to the nurseries in the affluent part of town because it's an affluent part of town irrespective of the fact that the nurseries there aren't actually that impressive (all the nurseries near me have 'good' ofsted rating - none are outstanding).

I live on the estate but I suppose, objectively, based on income/careers I'm not their target audience, however, the nursery was under subscribed so I'm not taking anyone's space. This afternoon I'm attending a session at our local children's centre, again I'm not the target audience but I received an email saying if they don't get X numbers it will be cancelled. If the service isn't being used it will be closed.

A pp said about donating things to the nursery. Our nursery often asked for things to use for junk modelling so I'd quite often donate things and buy things specifically because I am in a position to afford this.

I'd take it.

I appreciate your concerns and think it's great you are concerned about depriving another child of an opportunity.

However from my experience if when ds was small it's not quite how it works.

They are heavily funded and can offer free sessions to families referred to them. However you are paying £4 an hour (about right for pre school) so arent taking a funded place.

But yes the idea of snack money is great. Even an extra £2.50 a week covers 5 child who's family May benefit from that 50p which could be a load of bread and some tins of beans.

"Bad language can be found anywhere."

Not really. Bad language in front of very small children is very common where I live now, but didn't happen at all where I grew up. Swearing in front of and at children is taboo in some areas, but not in others.

If it were a primary school then absolutely not but 2 mornings a week at nursery I can't see being a problem.

OP I think it's generally a good thing to break down class barriers by bringing kids from different backgrounds together at a young age. I would go for it.

This. Children from deprived backgrounds need to mix with other people too. Not kept in the ghetto.

I’ve gone from working in a very posh London school to working in a setting that works with deprived children who come from a variety of very complexed background, some incredibly sad stories.
I can say without a doubt the behaviour in the London school was much much worse than where i currently work; where 99% of the children and completely lovely and so appreciative of what they are receiving

Do children of 2 at nursery do play dates and birthday parties? I thought that tended to start later.

OP, if the question about developmental / behavioural issues are troubling you, I had a really similar earl education to the nursery. I grew up in a pretty middle class home, in one of the (statistically) most deprived boroughs in England, so had a very similar experience, and continued it throughout my school years. My school wasn't 'targeted' at any social group but it was full of children from low SE backgrounds - it didn't need to be targeted really, the 'deprived' kids were so numerous, and anyone who didn't want their kids to mix with that group sent them to Catholic schools. Anyway, it took me years and years to even dimly register that there were any social differences afoot (which I think has made me a far more broad-minded person - I really notice it in conversations with my private-schooled silver-spoon husband), and neither my language development nor behaviour were at all affected.

She's 2. It's two mornings a week. It's relatively short term. The staff sound lovely and very capable, the environment sound great, and it sounds like it has a lovely atmosphere. It's extremely improbable that you'll regret it.

My reading of the op’s question is different. This is a nursery that provides a service targeted towards children from deprived families. So planned activities, the approach etc are carefully planned for these children. The op’s child is not from a deprived family. So will the activities, approach etc be the best ones for her child? It’s a very reasonable question, will this nursery cater for Her child’s needs?
My view would be yes, I think at this age the approach will be perfect for your child too. The most important thing is knowing your child, did the nursery seem like a good fit? Does it seem to offer the environment you would like for your child?

I used to work in a nursery and the poor children had the same mix of personalities and behaviour as the better off children . It very much depended on the mix at any given time

I agree with Pamela. I wouldn't do it for school but for nursery it will be a non-issue for her socially and so on. I would donate to the nursery maybe £100 or so, but through the manager and ask her to keep it confidential. You want to help - but you don't want the staff to think you are looking for special treatment.

I would give it a go and just try it. You have nothing to lose.

No I wouldn’t at nursery or school age.

If you don’t need nursery to work then I’d just do hobby clubs so she can socialise.