AIBU to be annoyed with very loud toddler on rush hour train?

[custarddonut]

On a packed commuter train this morning was an incredibly noisy toddler (he must have been around 3 – 3 and a half or so). As I got on the train he was raging, mid-tantrum, wailing that he wanted a particular seat on the train, and that he wanted the train to be going the other way to the direction it was actually travelling in. This was actually quite funny, if annoying, and went on for about 10 minutes. His mother was very nice and calm, didn’t really do or say much but eventually he stopped with his tantrum. However, for the rest of the journey, he was talking in what I can only think was the very top of his voice, narrating the things he saw, just general toddler chat I suppose (it was quite sweet really). His mother was sort of engaging with him in a nice way. But my genuine question is whether parents should try and help toddlers to moderate their speaking volume sometimes, or is this just a ridiculous / unreasonable thought / an absolute fantasy? For context, it was a rush hour train, most people looked like they might have been trying to read newspapers / check work emails etc. Everyone has an equal right to be on any train they like but I just wonder whether one should expect a bit more peace and quiet in rush hour? Or am I mad to think that you can ever expect to moderate or control how a toddler speaks or indeed the volume of it? Currently expecting my first child and I have no idea how I would personally approach this, but I am conscious that I found the toddler this morning incredibly irritating and distracting. AIBU?

'Gentle' parenting =/= permissive parenting, btw. You don't have to like either but they're not the same thing.

Beautiful3 I could have posted this when pregnant and 5 years on my opinion would not have changed. I'm actually 9 years on and yep, still think that toddlers should (and can) learn to keep it down in public places such as trains.

A tantrum about red and blue seats? Unless I was on the way to work I’d have got off, explained that the behaviour was totally unacceptable and said we could do no more trips until he accepted that his behaviour needed to be different. Next trip if remind him about that. Next time it happens, rinse and repeat. I did this regularly. Plays havoc with social lives and commitment but it’s called parenting.

People will say this is an outrageous statement. I say it’s simply parenting. My kids just weren’t allowed to get away with this kind of shit. I had one very demanding, boisterous and shouty child. I didn’t change my parenting because the world isn’t about to change to make her demanding behaviour acceptable. My child learned to moderate her behaviour. 3 or 33, shouting behaviour in public is unacceptable and needs to be stamped on.

WhatNoNotYouAgain so what consequences do you have in place to deal with that? Or do you just shrug your shoulders?

"3 or 33, shouting behaviour in public is unacceptable and needs to be stamped on"

Oddly enough my severely disabled son won't understand that and neither might you when you are 90.

The other day he had a twenty minute tantrum on the bus because the seats were blue instead of red.

I am embarrassed for you and the fact that you are so proud of you tells you exactly what the problem is here: you, the lazy parent.
It's not acceptable to let your kid tantrum for 20 minutes.

Some of us manage, but yes, it takes work.

I am always baffled by these lazy and proud parents.You give a bad name to the rest of us.

It's not acceptable to let your kid tantrum for 20 minutes.

Yes. Next time your 3-year-old tantrums, give him a formal written notification of his unacceptable behaviour. It's the only way he'll learn. Sure he might be claiming that he has an undeveloped frontal cortex and is not able to control himself in the way an adult would, but he's just having you on - everyone knows toddlers are famed for their masterful self-control

(seriously though, solidarity to anyone dealing with bus tantrums. I remember getting off once and sitting on a wall by a road somewhere and just sobbing with my flailing screaming toddler in my arms.)

theresnotthatmuchtoit

I was just going to say that mine is almost 3 but has been mistaken for 4, unfortunately her emotions are not as advanced as her height or speech. She probably looked and sounded 3-3.5 to the informed when she was barely 2!

OP, I think the mother was probably doing whatever she thought would cause the least annoyance.

As for my (still just about) 2 year old...

Her tantrums are short, which is a blessing, but 'we need to be quiet' results in her whispering the next two sentences before returning to toddler volume.

She cannot be quietly reasoned with. Bribery only works for things with a finite conclusion.

Actually shushing her or being stern would result in another tantrum if she's tired or bored - which at home we ignore but I try to avoid in public as it's even more annoying than the loudness.

So yeah, I'd probably go with 'toddler volume' being less annoying than 'toddler tantrum' - those are pretty much the choices until their brains mature a bit.

'it takes time and patience' 'it takes work' 'permissive snowflake parenting'.

ALL BOLLOCKS. A 3 year old is a 3 yr old. Not 4, not 5. They do not have the language skills or emotional skills to instantly control their behaviour. YES you should have boundaries. YES you're in charge. But during the process of bringing up a civilised child you will have uncivilised behaviour to deal with and maybe on a commuter train she couldn't get off because her 3 Yr old was talking too loudly .

It's said here often enough. What you see is a snapshot of someone's day. Stop remembering yourselves as perfect parents whose kids never behaved badly and yourselves never had a bad mood or a lax moment.

ALL BOLLOCKS. A 3 year old is a 3 yr old. Not 4, not 5. They do not have the language skills or emotional skills to instantly control their behaviour. YES you should have boundaries. YES you're in charge. But during the process of bringing up a civilised child you will have uncivilised behaviour to deal with and maybe on a commuter train she couldn't get off because her 3 Yr old was talking too loudly

Yes!! This!!! @Simkin I agree!!

A 3 year old is a 3 yr old. Not 4, not 5.

you don't say...

A 3 year old is not a 6 months old either! Of course any normal parent don't let their kids run feral and tantrum for 20 minutes, at 2, 3 or 4 years old - you just need different technique obviously.

Refusing to take responsibility and pretend it's out of your hand just make you a lazy parent. At least own it, you can't be bothered to deal with your own child, shame for people around you who have to put up with it .

53rdWay
no wonder there are so many badly behaved little horrors with attitude like yours. The rest of the parents manage, but yes, it takes some work...

You're just blowing me over here with your evident expertise in child development. Tell me, have you ever met any actual toddlers?

Come back to this thread in about 3 years time and let us know if you still think this is unreasonable. I would be quite stressed taking my toddler on a packed train and if he’d already had a tantrum his mum probably didn’t want to make matters worse by trying to moderate his volume. It doesn’t sound like he’s doing anything particularly wrong other than talking to be honest. I’ve seen much worse antisocial behaviour from adults.

53rdWay
more than you if you try to convince yourself that's it's normal to leave a kid tantrumming for 20 minutes.

I feel so sorry for the teachers who will end up with them.

I get this on the tram. It is really irritating. I find generally the parents don’t have inside voices either.

more than you if you try to convince yourself that's it's normal to leave a kid tantrumming for 20 minutes

That’s a ‘no’, then.

You have so much to learn OP

On my commute on schooldays I see 2 boys approx at a guess 8 and 10, brothers. Mum gets them on the bus but doesn't travel with them. They're forever playing videos/TV/games loudly on the phone - loud enough for others to hear and also regularly do stuff like bang on the window really loudly. Probably they do this because their mum isn't there or she's let them do this in the past. It's annoying as they're kids but I don't often speak to them and I'm not travelling that way as of next week so it won't bother me but it's bloody annoying

Which reminds me, a mum and a probably 5 or so year old boy got on the train the other day, and she just let him play a game on the phone at full volume, all the sounds effects and annoying game music, some kind of fighting game by the sounds of it. The boy himself was also quite animated, really into the game and making noises of exasperation or enjoyment. No-one said anything, being British and I did wonder (after several posts on here about SN children being unable to wear headphones) whether any SN was at play and if he didn't do that then he might be making more noise, but it didn't on the face of it look like fantastic parenting, and was the most execrable noise. A chatting toddler would have been very pleasant in comparison.

ethelfleda & TheCatThatDanced

The point I was making was that 'public' doesn't mean 'make as much noise as you want.' The poster said:

it's called PUBLIC transport for a reason. It's not like he was kicking off at a funeral or something or during a silent meditation retreat or something. SO YABU.

This suggests that quiet and considerate behaviour should be reserved for special situations, rather than being the default when you are out in public.

Obviously there will be some people who can't moderate themselves due to age or disability, but quiet, considerate behaviour should be what everyone is aiming for when out in public*, rather than having the attitude that it's a "PUBLIC" space, so it's a free for all.

*(Obviously excluding public spaces that are designed for noisy activities such as playgrounds).

Before you have your own child you have to realise that shouting and screaming and behaving badly are fine in today’s world. Don’t for goodness sake try to moderate their behaviour - even in a gentle way. They must be allowed to express themselves as noisily as possible. And instil in them that they are the boss and must be listened to. Don’t give a shit how their behaviour affects other people because they are entitled to behave in any way they see fit.

And if anyone complains they are being very very unreasonable because your child is the absolute centre of the world.

But be sure to give many tuts about other people’s children who obviously don’t know how to behave. 😉

Actually OP what you should probably prepare for is every tiny action of yours and your children's in public being scrutinised and judged. Don't worry though if you want to feel like your every parenting move makes you a living saint just put on a false moustache and you'll be grand.

The point I was making was that 'public' doesn't mean 'make as much noise as you want.' The poster said:

The point I was making was that 'public' doesn't mean 'make as much noise as you want.' The poster said:

The OP said she was speaking loudly not screaming at the top of her voice! Speaking loudly is hardly making as much noise as you want.

she was speaking loudly not screaming at the top of her voice! Speaking loudly is hardly making as much noise as you want

Really? Are you saying that everyone, if they could makes as much noise as they wanted, would scream at the top of their voice? I disagree - it's far more likely that 'making as much noise as you want' means talking loudly rather than shouting or screaming, which is an effort in itself.