To think that there is a worrying rise of The Pushy Parent?

[ShutTheDough]

I visited my friend last week who has moved to Cambridge and happened to meet some of her friends. My friend is very down to earth and I would say has a very relaxed style of parenting. I was quite surprised about how much they invested in their children. Not saying that's a bad thing obviously but it all seemed like alot of pressure on the children. One of them already had the careers set out for their DC.
It just seemed all a bit intense tbh.

My dc are bright. I support them. Cannot afford any extra curricular stuff but do talk to them about life, the universe and everything. I am there for them. They know their future is in their hands.

Involved interested parents are incalculably valuable. My friend runs a mentoring charity to give kids that don’t have this mentors to do what the parents on this thread are doing. Most have single parents who weren’t tertiary educated in full time minimum wage jobs themselves

I have a relaxed house with 3dc. 12,10,7.

They love being at home. The oldest does no activities at all, the middle was training a lot and competing nationally at a sport but has decided to stop just this week, the youngest does rugby and swimming.

I don't want them to chase the materialistic dream. I want them to find pleasure in simple things and the importance of friends and family.

Ive recently dropped my work hours to 3 days a week but I also run a business at home (although involve the children in this). I love just pottering around with the children and they relish being with me.

I sometimes have to stop myself being influenced by more ambitious families. I'm happy and my children seem happy and fulfilled so I have to keep reminding myself of this!

Our children are young adults. It's been my second time of seeing those ambitious parents dreams smashed. (My class and theirs)

You can have amazing dc while they are young. But remember when you were young adults? Who could tell you anything??

Teach your dc how to make good choices. Teach them that you're a safe place to go to when they are in need of help/advice. (Don't throw fits bc they aren't perfect/made a massive screwup. They will. YOU did.)

Give them time to do nothing bc they need that, as children/teens. When you're bored, sometimes you realize what you really enjoy/want. Let their brain wander.

Remember life is long and expecting people whose brains aren't mature until age 25 to know what they want isn't very smart.

The most perfect, popular dc whose grades and extracurriculars were amazing often burned out and ended up unhappy shortly after school.

Some dc who were "late bloomers" have extraordinarily happy lives.

Find a balance. You can't live their lives for them. Give them time to discover who they are.

Give them firm expectations. ours were: After school: work on job, business or education(nobody gets a free ride). Be good humans. Respect those who are less fortunate. No bullying. Good manners. Be part of our family with love and respect. Be healthy in mind, spirit and body.

Some dc burn out early. I tell mine that life is a marathon, not a sprint. Our rule was one extracurricular/term. Dinner together every night possible. No screens at meals. Holidays together. Make decisions but expect to be responsible for results (we're not going to judge. But we may tease them gently and we will help if we can)

Life is difficult. Let them know you support them as they find their feet. All those lessons? Not very important when they are grown up. Spending time with your dc, enjoying their company, building relationships are far more important than any classes mine ever took. (Outside of lifeguarding)

^^I'm with runninguphills and find Brot64's approach baffling. I don't at all get the idea that you have to inculcate your kids with the notion that making and spending money is the be all and end all.
My Dc were all born in Cambridge and the older 2 spent all their primary years there. I don't recognise at all the picture of extremely pushy parents that's been painted. Yes, lots of academics etc but most people encourage a normal, balanced life.

I think the thing is that there is a line between being a supportive parent who facilitates children's interests and guides them to make the most of the opportunities they have and one who pushes the child to do what the parent thinks is best for them. I don't think it's too do with the number of activities the kids do or the amount of time they spend on them but the attitude towards the activities.

My mum was pushy. She is a perfectionist and wanted us to be top of the class/ win at everything. If you scored 9/10 it was all about the mark you didn't get. She complained to my school that they weren't giving enough homework I was well supported in a variety of activities, most of which were great but some that I wasn't allowed to give up even when really I needed to be doing less. I don't think all that really did me any favours. I struggle to motivate myself at times, self confidence has always been rubbish and my relationship with my mum has suffered. and the most content people I know aren't the ices who were top of the class but those who have good social skills, are resilient and persevere. I am hoping that I can be a supportive and facilitating parent to my children. Ds (6) is doing beavers, swimming and tennis. Ds (3) swimming and tennis (we all do the tennis together!) Which may sound a lot but although swimming will continue until they're competent I have no ambitions for the others beyond fun and exercise. Hopefully I can get the balance right!

@Jemima232 Ah spelling snobbery the bastion of the fearful and stupid. If you had any of the superior intelligence your post implied you had you'd know that spelling has very little to do with intelligence or wisdom. I'm a terrible speller, very dyslexic and I couldn't read until I was 12. For what it's worth, if you lay any weight behind these things, I already know I have more education, wit and wisdom in my left eyebrow then you do than you do altogether.

But can’t you get all that elsewhere and be a bit more inspired about where you’ll be living for 4 years, the life you’ll have whilst studying, your fellow students and the ethos? I think it’s important to feel that you’ll fit in and be happy whilst at your uni choice.

Absolutely. So if Harvard isn't for you then you don't apply.

I think you may have confused Harvard Square with "Cambridge". Bit like thinking picadilly circus is London. Cambridge is a big diverse, highly politically active, very interesting city. If a Harvard student never got past the one tiny main bit of Harvard Sq you photographed he'd be pretty dim tbh.

And 1.6 miles is nothing in Cambridge/Boston. With luck your student would be meeting people going to Northeastern or Berkely or BU or BC or MIT or Tufts or working or doing whatever. Do UK students just socialise within their dorms or never venture beyond their university's immediate streets - maybe that is a cultural difference.

I appreciate you were visiting so it is hard to take in but Boston/Cambridge is a large diverse urban area that is very welcoming to students and academics and people really don't judge universities by a particular corner of their campus.

Never saw the straw hats in all the years going into/through Harvard Sq. Think it is a summer tourist thing. Bit like punting down the Cam

All the pushy young people I seem to constantly encounter have to learn the trait from someone- the parents of course.

Have you been professionally successful cudbywestrangers?

Hmmm the hats just feel like they’re pretending to be the same. They look as if they’ve lost their punt. You can buy your own from one of the many Harvard merch shops if you fancy one.

As an aside because Im nosey and you might know. Do you think Harvard knew what was going on re the parent cheating scams? I find it hard to believe they didn’t. Does it not devalue Harvard degrees, don’t people wonder if those with one had parents who bought their place?

None of the universities involved in the cheating scams knew what was going on - if they did they would also have been indicted.

Harvard was one of many universities (and not the top one - think that was University of Southern California) involved. My son's university had one kid fake SATs to get in. It certainly doesn't devalue my son's degree.

Tbh I find it odd that you are focusing so much on bringing down Harvard. It isn't for everyone. DH thinks its students are neurotic (he taught them). But it is the top-ranked university in the world for a reason. You get an amazing education if you go there. no one will devalue a harvard degree because of a rogue college guidance counsellor. you a degree in Harvard by being excellent. presume it is the same in Oxford Cambridge and other UK universities.

The longitudinal studies on Harvard grads have them achieving financial and personal success way more than the norm - no matter what backround (except for those with alcohol problems) I've done classes there as a non-enrolled student and the teaching is exceptional. The kids from my daughter's class who are going to Harvard - nothing could devalue their degrees. They are highly intelligent, broadly interested, deeply engaged women who are looking for advanced exceptional education.

I live close to Cambridge and don't know what you are talking about when you talk about the hats. Haven't seen them but maybe they are in the tourist areas. No one in Harvard thinks about Cambridge or Oxford at all. They are happy to be at Harvard - the top ranked university in the world. I think this is a tourist guide thing. Or maybe just people wanting shade in a hot summer.

Brot64 how on earth do you manage to ram all that in logistically? Do your children make their own way to and from activities?
No judgement involved I am just fascinated.

Not trying to drag it down just intrigued about the scam and initially said we weren’t that taken with it. You were quite sensitive re any Harvatd criticism so I replied.Very much doubt my dc are the Oxbridge types either so it isn’t personal.

I actually think the insistence on 'happy' is a bit of a stress in and of itself. It's normal not to be happy, all the time.

Agree with this. A child raised to believe they ought to always be happy is going to deeply struggle in the real world.

There’s a thread now where a woman says her kids are well behaved...because she lets them use iPads with no limits. She is afraid to take the screens away because then they’ll be unhappy.

I’d much rather my DCs in music or language classes than watching YouTube. And yes let’s be realistic a hell of a lot of kids these days are becoming screen zombies.

I'm not sensitive about any Harvard criticism. But your thing of 'a dull poor man's oxford" really did need commenting on. My dd didn't want to apply to Harvard either. But comparing Cambridge to a Surrey town and Harvard as a poor dull man's oxford will of course make anyone who has any interest in third level education in the US think what the f-ing fuck are you thinking?

And yes I replied to you on why you are wondering why the scam should effect the worth of Harvard degrees. To anyone living in the US that is just absurd.

@pallisers she has a weird bee in her bonnet about Harvard. I can’t imagine any person serious about academics would turn Harvard down because of the look of the buildings. Unless it’s for a similar institution like Yale or Princeton.

@Raaaaaah

No the children don't make their own way to the activities. We have a nanny who comes twice a week. Once for pick up on Mondays and once for babysitting in the evenings when DP & I go out.

These are 3 children, some weeks 4(step child who has a somewhat similar routine). They all swim at different levels at the same club which means different times. The oldest goes for his training with his best friend out of choice (including the rowing) on most days (BF's mother picks him up,gives them dinner etc and takes them. Her youngest swims with my youngest girl so I pick her up and do the same. We alternate monthly). All clubs done at school are easily managed as they are already there (which next term will be on Mondays, Tuesdays & Wednesday's).

From Wednesday's -Friday's; either DP or myself work from home, sometimes both of us, which is the easiest time. When both at home, we would pick them up together, have dinner out and on Thursday's go for languages after. DP would return home with older as he's language tutor comes to us.

DP takes them to tennis as he also plays at the club. Music is played at school and extra lessons at home, tutors come to us, so easy to be flexible with time and days.

There's the science club for one of the DC on Sunday mornings for an hour which is located just off Hyde Park. So we drop DC off then all usually go for a family run (we are all generally very sporty) or walk in the park where the other DC goes to the playground (weather dependant). Older one is past the age of playgrounds. Some Sundays, especially when SS is with us, the boys and DP go off and do whatever it is they want and me and my other girl would usually do something else.

We would then meet at other DC science club at pick up and have a day out as a family or some days go home do nothing (this would be the day that the kids would generally get screen time, DP & our boys like to game, my girls like to watch YouTube toy review videos and the youngest has an obsession with slime videos and building puzzles). Homework is 30 minutes max each day (as recommended by the school and reading is expected to be done everyday before bed. Younger one still likes being read to, the others prefer to read alone, although older is developing a habit for audio books which he loves but I am divided as to whether it's better for him to read print.

That's pretty much our usual week for term time (we do not do clubs when there are birthdays, sleepovers etc to attend or where any of them is involved in a school production or event). We also do not do any clubs from end June (when the school holidays begin -early September; we are usually traveling then . If in the US (where we spend at least 3 weeks of the holidays every year as we have a home there) the DC would attend at least a week of summer camp usually in the Bridgehampton area as they love the American camps and have been attending this particular one for a while.

I really haven’t. First time I’d paid it much thought was when we visited. The Harvard Square area seemed what it seemed to us and no we’re not serious about academics. We simply have bright dc who are starting to research their uni choices. We are simply supporting them in that. Happiness, atmosphere and child gut feeling is probably more important to us as parents. We will strike a balance. Make sure they pick one that supports their future well and is worth their years of debt but ultimately we want it to be their choice. Being serious about academics isn’t really our highest priority. Reverting back to the thread maybe we’re not pushy enough as regards that area.

I suppose the thread does show the degree of privilege in some Mumsnet discussions.

While there is a significant minority of people who can afford private education - perhaps through scholarships - in the UK, some of those may be hard pressed as a result of fees, so that investing heavily in other paid activities for children isn't possible.

What's 'normal' is for families to have to budget quite carefully. So one or two out of school activities for children may be possible. - perhaps Cubs, Brownies, sports clubs where subscriptions are affordable and expensive equipment isn't essential. Or parents who are anxious about their children's educational prowess may budget for group tuition via providers like Kumon. Some parents will also put effort into the finding what they believe to be the best state schooling for their children if they live in areas - cities, towns, - where there are choices. (In rural areas, it may be more straightforward. There's a local primary and a local secondary and that's that.)

But for most of us, most of the time an intensive regime of paid hobbies and activities at weekends/after school is just not possible. And I think for quite a few of us, it doesn't even seem to be desirable. I reckon most of us believe - quite rightly - that if we love and encourage our children, setting a few boundaries and give them a little freedom as with well, then with any luck they will be as equipped as can reasonably be expected to cope with life as adults.

I remember watching an education documentary a few years ago, maybe on C4, and it really stayed with me.
There was a white family and they did forest school and were very free range and relaxed.
Then there was a black family and the DC did lots of after school activities and often ate on the go.
And the mum said to the other mum, sometimes i'd love the dc to have that freedom but then what opportunities would my DC have?

I think sometimes being able to do nothing is a privilidge. If you live in a city flat you need to work so much harder to make sure the DC get fresh air and exercise.
Same with tutoring, some parents can easily help, some parents can barely understand it (but understand its important so send the dc to kumon or get a local alevel student in)

@Host

There’s nothing wrong with what you are saying (with the exception of implying that people like me do not love our DC. I will not and have not bothered responding to this line of argument. It’s beyond ridiculous and does not merit a discussion).

I don’t expect anyone else to live as I live. I didn’t and still don’t find my approach as shocking as has been stated here. It is the way I grew up. My siblings (both living in the US; bring up their children pretty much in similar ways), so do our closest friends (some do slightly less/more) . It’s just the way we do and have always done things. Are our kids euphorically happy 24/7? NOPE! Do they always bounce up and enthusiastically say they are dying for a run (almost never, however I do here the odd, “I am dying for a swim”). I run every morning and neither do I. It is impossible and actually worrying that anyone would think it’s natural to be constantly happy. It seems children are seen to be so fragile that any potential unhappiness or disagreement supposedly negatively impacts them. Which to me is shocking. Knowing how to deal with unhappiness/low moods is an extremely important quality. In fact, accepting that it’s normal to be unhappy now and then is more beneficial than expecting constant happiness IMO.

Yes freedom is great and they get a certain amount of it. But I cannot let my DC do whatever/whenever they want at their own time. It’s not what I believe in. I saw on another thread that a parent was scared to make her DC unhappy so gave them iPads(which she quickly substituted for another screen; TV, when the iPad was removed. She considered bouncing the DC from one screen to the next progress). She apparently didn’t even know where her park was and equated silence & their attachment to their screens as happiness. She couldn’t deal with grumpiness, a 5 year olds tantrum and seems to be petrified by public embarrassment caused by her DC. If this is happiness, love and what freedom means to children and some parents, it is certainly not for us.

Thankfully I have never met parents like this.

@howwudufeel
I've done fine, got a good degree (despite poor effort once I wasn't at home!) and a professional job. But I have been doing the same job for 15 years and probably should have moved up the career ladder some time ago really...

@GirlRaisedInTheSouth your schedule sounds hideous. Do you ever hang out at home and cook or play a board game? Do you have a job as well? I don’t know how you can keep all of this going.