To think that there is a worrying rise of The Pushy Parent?

[ShutTheDough]

I visited my friend last week who has moved to Cambridge and happened to meet some of her friends. My friend is very down to earth and I would say has a very relaxed style of parenting. I was quite surprised about how much they invested in their children. Not saying that's a bad thing obviously but it all seemed like alot of pressure on the children. One of them already had the careers set out for their DC.
It just seemed all a bit intense tbh.

Not 25 years but I bet a lot of people could give good guesses for 16/18, especially if they live in smaller towns and don't move.

ie, know what primary and secondary school their DC will go to...especially if there's not many.
Know what the common part time jobs are...especially if any relatives own local businesses.
Know what clubs are available if you don't want to travel and live rurally (eg, guides in the village hall, next town over has swimming)

Just looked like a dull poor man’s Oxbridge and Cambridge just felt like a busy Surrrey town

seriously! I get that Harvard wasn't for you (wasn't for my dd either) but a dull poor (poor!!) man's oxbridge. And MIT is in that same "busy Surrey town" . The UK never ceases to amuse me.

MIT has a huge problem with student stress. The campus tours are wonderful but they are hoping you will apply so are selling hard. That they want you to apply does not mean they think you will get a place. They want their acceptance rate stats to go up - or rather down.

Seriously, there are plenty of kids who graduate from amazing universities and go on to achieve fuck all save chronic anxiety and a job in the City. I work with them all day every day. Children who are raised to be resourceful, as opposed to being provided with all they could ever need, do better as balanced, happy adults. A strong work ethic and a sense of self - with room to explore what that means - equals successful, confident, creative adults.

The MIT campus is a long way away from Harvard. It was gorgeous and massive overlooking the Charles river and Boston parks in a nicer part of town with far more impressive facilities.It had a buzzing exciting atmosphere with an impressive ethos.Harvard was squashed into the centre of Cambridge which I’m sorry did just feel like a tired Surrey town. The talk was boring, the guide a tad smug and the campus looked very uninspiring. We just weren’t impressed with that part of Cambridge , the tour or Harvard. Sorry f that offends but one should be able to say what they feel.

MIT didn’t need to do a hard sell and didn’t. It was in a massive packed lecture theatre with hoards still piling in. If anything I heard the only bit of sense I’ve heard since we started doing uni research. And yes I’m aware it’s nigh on impossible to get in, we only really signed up to be nosey and because one of the dc is interested in going.Still wouldn’t encourage my dc to go to Harvard instead if they don’t get in which is more than likely.Our local uni in the UK is nicer and more inspiring. We also have plenty of very good unis in the uk which I personally have found more inspiring should he wish to go further afield. I’m sure the US has too.

Also recently saw a parent having a massive go at a child for getting a B+ instead of an A, which seemed far too far the other way.

To be fair, of a student has been getting As their whole student life then they get a B+, surely it’s a sign they have taken foot off the gas. My parents would always have a go if I dropped grades and it was always because I hadn’t bothered.

MIT is a Cambridge. MA university just the same as Harvard. Their campuses are incredibly close. I appreciate that you don't get that sense on a quick trip but their sail and crew teams sail on the same river on nearby boat and sail houses. their students socialise in the same places. They aren't in different cities. MIT's main campus is nearer to the river. Harvard has loads of sites close to the same river.
They are both in the major urban area of greater Boston/Cambridge. how you compare that to a busy surrey town is beyond me.

Look, Oxford is unique, Cambridge is unique, Harvard is unique, MIT is unique. Comparing them and saying Harvard is a dull poor man's Oxbridge is silly. Harvard doesn't want to be Oxford - or Cambridge - or MIT. I'm quite sure Oxford doesn't want to be Harvard (except for its endowmnent maybe but all universities want that) A lot depends on the tour you get - which is why kids in the US are told not to make up their minds until they really take a deep look at the place. Our tour of Harvard left my dd not interested. But the talk beforehand was the best I've heard about managing expectations and enjoying the college experience. You obviously had a different experience. Williams college in western mass is the highest ranked liberal arts college in the US at the moment and is an amazing place to attend - the admissions talk made me want to drink gin in the morning - and judging by the glazed look on faces and the number of people escaping to the bathroom, I wasn't alone. That wouldn't stop encouraging my kids applying there though.

All colleges in the US require non-stem modules of their STEM students. DS is an engineering students and has taken a history/english/whatever class every year so far - and he isn't in MIT. most - I would say all - US colleges and high schools emphasize working in teams.

Speaking as one who’s DC have gone on to Oxford/Cambridge from a very ordinary comp,I can confirm that it is
100% true that the very top unis do not care what extra curricular activities their students have done. Passion and aptitude
for the chosen subject is all that matters.

It’s 1.6 miles between Harvard Yard where we were staying and MIT. I don’t call that incredibly close. Yes Im aware business and medicine are elsewhere but they were of no interest to us.The area round Harvard Yard was a world away from the MIT end and did feel very like a dull Surrey/ Oxbridge town. We passed Clark’s shoe shops,a Lush and two other UK high street stores I forget which. It was just full of Harvard merch shops and straw hatted students leading tours.Just dull really and scruffy. Preferred the other end of Cambridge and Boston.Stayed there 4 days so think we gave it a good go.

Harvard Yard or Epsom?

I often see that MC pushy parents try and dissuade other MC parents from being too pushy trying to take out the competition? Lots of people keep Kumon, tutoring and other extras quiet

YES absolutely this. Not sure if it's trying to "take out the competition" or just culturally it's not seen as positive to be pushy (as evidenced by this thread).

Again - as long as it's not damaging the child's mental health or your relationship, there is literally nothing better a parent can do than to invest in their child's education and development. The idea that it's wrong to aspire for your little one to have talents is just bizarre.

On a separate comment re: British universities - most other countries have secondary students take more like 6 subjects instead of dropping to 3 like in A-Levels. So isn't it then much more challenging for someone coming from an IB, American, Australian education system to show "passion" for one subject when applying?

I guess I'm wondering if it's possible this adherence to subject specific passion may have to change in a globalised education market.

Should also add - I studied at a top US university and they don't want a long list of random ECs but a few that show a dedicated interest and preferably leadership abilities. It's also worth noting that sports are extremely popular in the US and it's very common for students aiming for these universities to have done at least one throughout school. It's not just to get accepted, it's a cultural thing.

Sorry Harvard Square but you get my drift.

@Owlbabie5 I'm not a fan of Harvard or the Boston area in general as a place to live, but people go there for the academic experience, not the shop selection.

No I get that but the campus was equally uninspiring as was the tour. We met somebody else who felt the same and I see a previous poster did too. People and students can have differing opinions. I get the impression one is supposed to have been impressed simply because it was Harvard. We didn’t get the feels sorry.

And what is it with the straw hats?

I don't know why you're saying sorry to me? I don't like the campus or the area either. But if you're looking at education and resources few places can compete with Harvard. You want to work in a top scientific research lab or with a law professor who is shaping criminal justice policy? I'm sure you can deal with the uninspiring campus in exchange.

But can’t you get all that elsewhere and be a bit more inspired about where you’ll be living for 4 years, the life you’ll have whilst studying, your fellow students and the ethos? I think it’s important to feel that you’ll fit in and be happy whilst at your uni choice.

When did you go to Harvard? ( I have a Harvard degree, an Oxbridge degree and I have taught at both places). There is literally no comparison. Harvard doesn’t have the d world charm of Oxford. It doesn’t look like Hogwarts. But the facilities and opportunities are INCREDIBLE. Sadly, no UK university, not even Oxford can compete. We just don’t have the funds.
Want to learn an obscure 9th century language? Harvard will organise it for you, find a tutor, pay them. I tried to do some French classes at Oxford and the waiting list was a year long. As an undergraduate the breadth of stuff you get to explore at Harvard is unbelievable. It doesn’t matter whether it LOOKS like Epsom, it’s the education you get that is incredible. I am a senior lecturer at a UK university and while there is a lot wrong with Harvard (legacy kids, entitlement, the undergraduate culture), the actual education these kids receive is really truly excellent.
I have a bunch of friends who are all Harvard PHDs and who now teach at MIT and their overall impression is that MIT is very good for what it does in a much narrower way, but Harvard’s overall undergraduate education is better. (I am in the humanities so I have zero interest in MIT).

Having studied at both, the libraries, the resources for students etc, there is absolutely no comparison between Oxbridge and Harvard. There really isn’t.

And the best students I taught at Harvard were way way way better than my top Oxbridge students. Their motivation levels were spectacular, as was their work ethic. I know this is a controversial opinion but I ran it past two other academic colleagues one day (one from Harvard, one from Stanford) who also teach at Oxbridge and they concurred. I would say the ‘average’ student at Oxbridge is probably a little more worldly wise and better informed than the Harvard ‘average’ (the ones getting Bs and low 2:1s) but their top students were incredibly clever, accomplished and needed MUCH less handholding than my British students.

edge surely there are very academic students who don't excel in sports though?

I think I'd rather have a balance.

I don't agree with the parents micro managing there dcs lives and not allowing time to stop and stare.

My ds did need some motivation and did not like school but has completed a good degree. He also didn't want to do music lessons for long but plays well. He did do beavers to scouts which was good. He is goo at sport but didn't want to stay behind in secondary on the teams.

I always encouraged friends round for my dc even though it was a bit much at times

surely there are very academic students who don't excel in sports though?

Of course, but participation in school sports is quite high in the US, and you don't have to "excel" in a sport to put it on your application as an activity you participated in. Also American universities offer a lot of different sports at different levels, you don't have to be an Olympic-level competitor to find somewhere to play if you really want to.

Again it's just a cultural difference. Not unusual at all to find students who are academically and athletically talented. I think to British people it seems that it's extra-curriculars for the sake of padding a CV but it's just part of the high school experience. If you're not sporty there will be drama, glee club, marching band, photography, debate team, etc.

@PotolBabu spot on. I have studied at one of the US unis you have listed and at Oxbridge. I want my DCs studying in the US despite the extra cost.

I have met many such parents where I used to live. Much of this over activity is to keep the children away from ‘undesirables’,

And having raised kids in both countries, yes sport is a MUCH bigger part of the primary curriculum in the US and a much bigger part of extra curricular life. Very academic kids who are not naturally sporty (hello DS1!) will end up playing sport at a reasonable level because it’s available. When he came back to the UK he found he was quite good at a UK standard although he is REALLY not sporty (he runs like a drunk giraffe!).