To think people have become ‘delicate’?

[LottieLou90]

I’m not sure if it’s just me, but a joke can’t just be a joke anymore. It’s an insult.

I have quite a few friends who can handle a joke, or a constructive criticism. When I grew up, you told it how it is. If they didn’t like it then so be it.

It seems nowadays you can’t really express your emotions, how you feel or how someone has made you feel.

It’s like you have to protect everyone else’s feelings but your own. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a giver and not a taker but my DH broke the camels back today.

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like this too?

They want tolerance, they want compassion, they want understanding... for themselves. However, they don’t know how to give to others. I see this ALL of the time.

Rejecting Christianity the UK ha a stopped balancing love for self with love for others. They either love self too much or others too much and not self enough. They are happy to tell lies.

The western void - people need things to believe in - people don't follow the objective moral code of a supernatural power - they invent all kinds of belief systems - various people follow various belief systems and get cross and offended that others aren't following their beliefs - this encourages narcissism

How far do you think this through, all consequences, every single time?

I don’t need to think it through - it’s automatic. I don’t offend people generally and that requires zero effort - I don’t believe other people are frequently causing offence without either attempting to do so or holding some pretty offensive views.

Exactly @LolaSmiles. There is always more than one way to offer true constructive feedback without being rude. We are basically saying the same.

I'm particularly sensitive about the topic as my 'D'M has a weird habit of making me feel shit and then accusing me of getting offended too easily. My boss is able to list me the positives, the negatives and the improvements needed in my work without me giving a second thought. I don't think he is a special person, he just has a tiny bit of common sense.

It's quite simple - compliments are given freely and I think whenever they are due 'you look great' etc. Telling it like it is rude is for when feedback iis invited. If you value someone's friendship find the words to say it kindly and with respect. If you just want to tell it like it is for your own gratification then you're not a friend you're just mean spirited. If you inadvertently offend someone whose friendship you value - you apologise. It's not difficult and if you think they're a snowflake - it's not the friend for you because you clearly don't care or respect their feelings.

I don’t offend people generally

How do you know this?

I think what the OP is referring to is not a licence to be an oaf.
How I understand it is: at what point you begin curtailing your own opinions in favour of avoiding confrontation.

It’s a very English dilema. Avoiding any unpleasantness is a national sport. I see why it’s preferred. However, it leads to superficial and detached interactions. I honestly believe it is one of the big factors why people are so lonely in this country.
Privacy is one, being scared of rejection is another kettle of fish.

Anxiety is on the rise because people want to belong and they are scared of reaching out, they are scared of being judged. Because, frankly, they have no idea what people actually think of them, they have no gauge, no compass.

I genuinely think if people would spend less time perfecting the shit sandwich and actually sharing a sandwich, things would be much better.

khaleesi71

Do you end all relationships that don't follow your rules?

@HeatedRollers I don't spend time with people who are mean or rude. Is that what you meant? I don't tolerate my racist FIL who still makes Chalky jokes - I've told him that's offensive and unwelcome in my house. If a friend asks an opinion I'll try and be tactful because I don't want to upset them - it's not a crime to like a dress that doesn't suit someone but it's universally accepted that racism should be called out. Not sure it's controversial?

The thing that winds me up about this position is it is all one way. What you want is to be able to 'tell it like it is' with zero repercussions. It's a one way street. If someone you've 'told' tells you in return that they think what you've said is disgusting/horrible/ignorant, or shows you that you have upset them by what you've said, they should not do so because...reasons?

There is no erosion of free speech in this country. Indeed people of all perspectives simply can't be stopped from banging on! What there isn't is the right for people to rub themselves off all day long on how 'forthright' they are with their 'inconvenient truths' and not get any return fire. It's called debate and its the opposite of an erosion of free speech.

It's funny how those who feel they are being 'silenced' are never the ones with something constructive to say...

khaleesi71

They are your rules you live by them and that's ok.

Do you believe others can make their own rules and live by them just like you can or do you believe everyone should live by your rules?

@HeatedRollers Perhaps you could elaborate on why you find my approach so controversial? Happy to answer but it would be good to understand the root of your aggression here?

it's universally accepted that racism should be called out

What if I can't be bothered to call out racism, what if I am tired or not interested in being woke one day because I would prefer to speak to someone like your FIL about his knowledge in tax law instead, what should happen to me for failing at one of the rules you consider universal?

Ahh the mind reading again, sigh!

Fine if you're happy to ignore and enable racism. I'm not. As you were.

I don’t need to think it through - it’s automatic. I don’t offend people generally and that requires zero effort - I don’t believe other people are frequently causing offence without either attempting to do so or holding some pretty offensive views.

That is simply not true. My autistic friend says people frequently seem to take offence at things she has said and she rarely understands why.

I can't stand the 'tell-it-how-it-is brigade'.
It often means someone being rude and unkind.

I'm not shy to give my opinion if asked but I do it tactfully. I think you can be straightforward and honest without be unkind.

I think if the OP has had 'loads of people' being at things she has said then I suspect she is crossing the line as to what is ok to say.

If she is proud of being honest then why shouldn't the people she is upsetting or offended not be proud to let her know. Or does she think she is the only one who is allowed an opinion.

OP didn't tell her friend that she looked fat in the dress, the friend invented that as if they were a mind reader and got upset at their own thoughts not at anything OP actually said or intended.

People are making this about racism, no one has said it is okay to be racist.

And English tact often seems to mean lying. Do you know how bloody exhausting and infuriating English lying is? So many English people say to kids to tell the truth, then constantly lie all the time themselves. That is what tact usually means.

And I think it is fucking shitty to end a friendship without actually telling the person what they are doing that is wrong. I know it is easier for the person ending the friendship not to try and resolve issues first. But it is unfair.

It depends which way you look at it. Yes, humour has changed over the years but jokes about ugly, fat women, rape, racist stuff isn't funny. We just tolerated it.

Younger people haven't yet got the self-confidence or sense of perspective that we old 'uns have. I think they lack resilience. My parents came through a war and were very much 'old school' we were expected to roll with the verbal punches whereas younger parents are kinder.

That is simply not true. My autistic friend says people frequently seem to take offence at things she has said and she rarely understands why.

No one is talking about ND people. Both of my children have autism, if they ever learn to talk that will be quite a different situation.

OP takes pride in being a blunt person and bemoans the fragility of other people, failing to understand that our actions and words have consequences.

I don't know what this past world was where everyone 'told it like it is'. I'd be far more likely to give my honest opinion when asked about it, in my experience it was the previous generation who wouldn't. Might be a British thing. The only way I've seen that the older generation were more 'forthright' is that yes, they were more racist, sexist and homophobic.

I've honestly never met a real life 'I tell it like it is' person who wasn't just actually a massive knob. They must exist, but I don't know any.

jennymanara, YY!
Although it’s not as bad as the passive agressiveness. It’s a bit like: we’re not confrontational, but I will fucking play mind games with you till you get the hint I’m actually reacting. Because there’s nothing palpable in passive agressiveness, one can’t accuse.

jennymanara it is true about not always knowing offence has been occasioned.

My rule of thumb if feeling offended (not talking about discrimination or harassment, note.) is to categorise :

Did they mean to be offensive? Then they are being mean and it is their problem.

Did not mean to be? Then let it pass, obviously. To err is human.

This defuses my emotion around the event so generally I do not suffer from feeling offended.

Obviously though I think we are all pretty flawed.

Do the offended just have too high expectations of others?

It is also clear (to me at least) that offence can then be caused by the offended person complaining so there is a cascade of offence. "Calling out" has consequences. As does the quieter social exclusion.