When does a SAHP become a SAHP

[HouseholdPlantMurderer]

Had a discussion with a friend, both childless, about SAHP and we wondered when does Stay At Home Parent becomes simply a Stay At Home Person.
Discussion came about because a common friend of ours asked his wife if she started looking for a job and of she needs some help with it since children are now 12 and 13 and are really quite matured for the age so can be left alone for few hours in the afternoon. They wouldn't even have to be if she found early early start job as he works evenings. She flipped saying they agreed she can be SAHP. He is now miserable because she is angry, he is resentful because he didn't think he will have to do 65+ hours a week for 18 years yet still can't afford nice holidays and such. They could if the wife worked too.
They have his grand parents nearby who wouldn't mind minding the kids over holiday times.
We think she is being massively unreasonable.

So I ask MN. When does SAH Parent become a SAH Person?

Once kids start secondary school i would say you become a "person"

Lots of part time jobs around these days so if they wanted to work I'm sure they could - when it becomes less "have" to be at home for the kids and more "want" then that's when it starts to change?

@WelcomeToShootingStars i expect everyone expects it to be tough but we are all giving suggestions as to explain possibly why the friends partner is anti returning to work ... end of it is they need to discuss it more as a couple and support each other . Wife with income husband with emotional support and help around house while she adjusts.

It’s a case of don’t judge too much because you don’t know what happens behind closed doors.

The issue here is what happens to the kids in the holidays. Because there are 13 weeks school holidays each year, plus INSET days, where someone will have to keep the kids off the streets. If the wife's industry is so badly paid she could actually be working just to pay for child care or, as someone pointed out, have the GPs said they will cover 13 weeks holidays plus an hour or two after school. Every year...for 3 or 4 years?

I'm currently hunting one of those illusive term time only school jobs as DS is 12 years old now. I've been running my own business from home for three or four years but I need a stable income now. I was speaking to a mum at a birthday party today. She's just used the last of her leave up for the year. Her daughter still has three weeks school holiday plus another week in October and two weeks at Christmas. That will have to be paid for child care full time to cover those. That's the reality for a lot of parents and when they do the maths it's often better to continue with the SAHP if the second parent can't get a well paid enough job or one with term time only work.

However, I do agree that there are ways around it. Hospitality work can be temporary so doing a temp job for 6 weeks then having time off with the kids for the holidays could be a way around it. If the SAHP is agreeable. It is between the two of them - I'd be very careful about giving him agency numbers etc., Planting the idea of, say, the SAHP doing temp work so they can drop out of work during holidays is one thing, but supplying phone numbers is quite another. His argument with her doesn't need you and your other friend standing in the side lines egging him on. You don't walk in his shoes or her shoes for that matter and you have no idea what else is holding her back. Support but don't interfere. It's really not worth it.

Just simply saying your opinion or experience without being immediately bitchy.

That’s hilarious - did you forget you started a thread on a parenting website to discuss a situation that has nothing to do with you, in order to ask opinions about the career break of your friend’s wife? While at the same time pointing out again and again how unreasonable she is without pausing to think how difficult getting back into work might be? Or even being slightly sympathetic to her situation? Because you know the industry and skills (or lack of) aren’t a problem and you know they’ve got on-hand, willing grandparents to pick up the slack? Sure.

@Ginger1982 please don't ever feel like that. As a daughter of a SAHM and a single mother at that I know how hard it can be. I did not fully appreciate all my mother did until I had a house to run.

Like some on this thread, I also thought that a sahp to school aged children was basically unemployed...until I had School age children myself. And then realised I couldn't have been more wrong.

I think you have to have some sort of equality in a relationship, although that doesn't mean that both people have to contribute equally to the same things. I also think it's unreasonable for one partner to be working 65 hours per week if this isn't by choice.

In the instance you have described I think it would be fairer for your friend to look for some part time work do that she can make a financial contribution but also be there for the DC. However in her position I think I would be quite terrified to go back into a job market I'd been out of for 14 years.

It must be hard to re enter the workforce after such a long time.

Such a big change in your daily routine - maybe having to retrain, take a step down (depending on the industry).

Very difficult subject, and best left for the couple to work out.

I don't know exactly what you mean by hospitality industry but @Pumperthepumper is very rude in describing any profession in these terms. Every job has its own skills and qualities needed.

I do hope the husband is willing to also do his share of the child care and house work that goes beyond food shop and cooking if she does go back to work

@shinynewapple I was being sarcastic. The OP said there wouldn’t be an issue with lack of skills because the wife works in hospitality.

This is a philosophical discussion for me because I am not placed to answer what others should do.

I’m not a SAHP myself but I do subscribe to the view that wherever and whenever possible “good enough” parents are the absolutely best placed people to look after their own children’s well-being. That for me should feature high on any discussions about parents working away from home and childcare. Children need input at 12 and older and so if a family considers it an acceptable option to continue with a SAHP that’s a thumbs up from me. Paid employment is not the be all and end all of life.

I am however all about improving the balance of parenting between parents and opportunities for both parents to invest time with their children. A shorter much more flexible working week with parents splitting a career between 2 people is my preferred vision for the parenting landscape of the future.

Tbh it sounds like you and your friend just want to bitch about your friend’s wife.

Yep.

My neighbour doesn’t work. She doesn’t have any kids. Her husband sold his business for a fortune and they both much preferred the freedom to travel etc. Whose business is that? Theirs. What should she call herself? Whatever she damned well feels like.

Is the GP thing real help?

I ask as I have family who go on about how they could have the kids in school holidays - but it's mirage never materialises, and it took a while for DH to grasp that.

TBH it’s a thing between them as a couple and I would have expected it to be discussed with all the variables many times over the years so everyone expectations match.

I would have thought it would be a good time to have a plan to get back, but I do wonder how much he’ll be stepping up - even at secondary there are meeting before 5.30 - not often but needing a parent there – routine things like dental stuff – or is he expecting her to do everything still.

SAH Parent become a SAH Person - older teens but once you get into KS2 -older primary unless you have a baby with you most people seem to think you should be working some hours.

I am a SAHM and I intend to go back to work when youngest starts nursery. BUT I know how difficult that is going to be job wise when by that time I will of been out of work 5-6 years. I've currently been out just over three and have applied for some this year and heard nothing back from any. Don't think some employers like big gaps. You can't be a sahp for ever unless you have the money to be.

@Lazydaisies completely agree. while each family is different if there is a way to get a parent at home that is a good thing be it both working part time and taking turns who is at home or one parent working full time and the other staying at home. Personally DP and me decided there is little point in both of us sacrificing career wise so as I have a modest independent income I would stay at home once we had kids while he continues to work full time and over time as it means more money for the whole family when put together.

Shiny new apple I agree with you .65 hours p/w is an awful lot for anyone TBH. As I said in my earlier post School/Nursery /term time work is great but obviously very popular .He will feel taken for granted if this situation continues .Some sort of load sharing would be best in the long run .It is however difficult to "get back into" the workforce after such a long time away!.

@dottiedodah while true he will need to share the load of child care and house work. I wonder if he realises it's more then simply cooking and food shop and not expect his wife to do it like she likely did till now

The thing is OP, why should it matter to you if it doesn’t matter to SAHPs (parents or people)? Why do you even care?

I’m a SAHP. You can use the “P” to mean “parent” or “person” - whatever makes you feel better? Knock yourself out.

My DC are 11, 14 and 16, FYI.

If DH retires at 50 in the near future, he’ll be a SAHP too I’ll be sure to ask him to clarify whether he wants to be a “parent” or a “person” in this event, as this distinction seems of critical importance to some in MN.

I expect he’ll reply that he’s both “parent” and “person,” just as when he was working.

@NataliaOsipova That is a bit different as they don't need the money. I'd call your neighbour a lucky lady

@Pumperthepumper you're a pain in the arse

Agree with virgin
Anyway, a parent is always going to be a parent, whether their DCs are babies or adults or somewhere in between.

Fatty, have you turned off your @? Would you mind telling me how you did that? I can’t tag you back, I didn’t know you could switch it off!

And what about you OP? Are you only a “parent” when you’re children are actually with you?

Oh wait...

I am a stay at home parent and my kids are 14-18. Plenty of times in the week I have to stop what I'm doing and go to them or help them or do things for them etc.

For me, a SAHP set up only works if both parties are on the same page. I don't think it's fair for one person to shoulder all the financial responsibility when the other could work. That said, I can see how she may befeeling. It could be point blank not wanting to work or it could be feeling nervous about returning. Where there is no consensus then resentment and entitlement set in.

It can be easy to drift and what's starts as a short time becomes 'until they're in school' then "til DC2 is in school" then "but actually holidays and clubs" then "when they get to secondary school" and then secondary school creeps up and it's 11 years out of work and at that point it becomes 'but I can't get the same sort of job as I had before kids' (the same would apply to anyone who left the workplace for over a decade!), "But they're just teens and need support" and so on. It feels like delaying the inevitable in that by the time DC1 and 2 are both 18 there's been over 20 years out of work and then (in my experience with people who got to that point), there becomes an endless list of reasons why they couldn't possibly go back to work, maybe I could just part time for a bit,maybe do some bank work here and there etc.