When does a SAHP become a SAHP

[HouseholdPlantMurderer]

Had a discussion with a friend, both childless, about SAHP and we wondered when does Stay At Home Parent becomes simply a Stay At Home Person.
Discussion came about because a common friend of ours asked his wife if she started looking for a job and of she needs some help with it since children are now 12 and 13 and are really quite matured for the age so can be left alone for few hours in the afternoon. They wouldn't even have to be if she found early early start job as he works evenings. She flipped saying they agreed she can be SAHP. He is now miserable because she is angry, he is resentful because he didn't think he will have to do 65+ hours a week for 18 years yet still can't afford nice holidays and such. They could if the wife worked too.
They have his grand parents nearby who wouldn't mind minding the kids over holiday times.
We think she is being massively unreasonable.

So I ask MN. When does SAH Parent become a SAH Person?

"Could you walk back into your old job tomorrow, after a gap of only 2.3 years, without feeling the slightest bit apprehensive about it? Imagine having been out for five times that long, having been at home with your children all that time - still able to walk straight back to it?"

@Pumperthepumper of course I would be nervous. Jesus, I think I'd shit myself! I was a court lawyer. The thought of standing up and trying to defend a client fills me with horror! But my point is, I've always been aware that my being a SAHP was for a purpose, ie so we wouldn't have to pay for childcare. Once your kid is in school, I don't see the argument for not working unless your partner is so high earning that you don't have to.

I've always taken the view that being a SAHP is either a luxury if one partner earns really well or somewhat of a necessity given childcare costs so still being a SAHP when your kids are well into school, particularly secondary school is, in my opinion, a bit lazy.

SAHP are hardly sitting on their bum all day with nothing to do. Often they do all the food shop, cooking, and anything else that needs doing around the house. Working full time would mean out sourcing child care and even part time from what I see it usually means they out source the cleaning of the house unless they are prepared to have the family clean in the limited quality time they have. Yes it is a luxury but it's not hours of sitting on the sofa watching tv and being lazy

I was thinking about giving him a contact for an agency here which helps women back to work as we had number of them for training and references at work and they all said it helps. But I do think that would be me butting into it, which is what I don't want to do...

I wouldn’t, it’s not your place. It has been an interesting thread though, and I can see how the working partner must feel resentful. I do think it’s important to be there for teenagers too - I have one, and I still choose to work term hours that allow me to be at home when he gets in from school. But getting such a job isn’t always easy! I have a couple of acquaintances on FB who have older teenagers (one has a 17 year old) and describe themselves as “I’m a full time mummy.” I’m privately a bit but wouldn’t say anything

Also the grandparent help - they’re so lucky to have grandparents who don’t mind doing the school pickups and dropoffs and making snacks and doing homework and watching them during the holidays when both parents can’t get time off AND babysitting the odd night so mum and dad can get an odd night off. How lucky to have both sets of retired grandparents within walking distance who are just so desperate to pick up the childcare for free just to help her get back to work.

We think she is being massively unreasonable.

I'm sure she'd be interested to hear that you have talked behind her back and decided this. Interesting you describe her as a friend. Nice.

@Pumperthepumper what's your problem?

@demureandgraceful I don't think all
SAHP are lazy - I'm one myself and know that I'm not! But once my son is in school (if I'm not working before that) then I would need to go out and earn some money. My DH couldn't afford to keep me at home forever once I'm technically not providing full time child care.

Remember she would need to do this job term time only op. There's 14 weeks school holidays to cover.
Yes, at their ages they could look after themselves, but thats certainly not a life I'd want for my kids.

@Ginger1982 As long as that works for you that is great I guess. I just can't see how I would even close to parent the way my mother did and what I would want for my children if I worked but I do realise it is a luxury.

we hvae lots of breakfast and lunch time independent cafes here and there are jobs which pop out from time to time. And plentiful of hotels. No one expects her to find job next day. It always takes time. It's just we wondered about unreasonability of the refusal to try
However, as pp pointed out, if he just asked out of the blue, HIB quite U.

So early starts then, is he always awake and available to get the children up for school? Even after his late nights and long hours?

It sounds very much like he's doing what a lot of men do - he's enjoyed the benefits of her giving up her financial independence while it suited him, but now that it suits him he wants her to get a job, any job, as long as it doesn't interefere with his life in any way. So she'll be expected to fit her job (which there will probably be pressure for it to pay decently) around getting the kids to school, doing everything at home and being available for ferrying the kids around after school as well.

And I also bet he's just assuming the grandparents would be happy to do the school run every day and have two teenagers to entertain 13 weeks a year.

I was thinking about giving him a contact for an agency here which helps women back to work as we had number of them for training and references at work and they all said it helps. But I do think that would be me butting into it, which is what I don't want to do...

You actually thought about doing this...giving the number to him...
I'm glad you at least realise this would be butting in.

Once your kid is in school, I don't see the argument for not working unless your partner is so high earning that you don't have to.

Well, let’s think about it - you head back to work when your kid is three. Who pays childcare? You head back when your kid is five - who picks them up from school? Or do you pay for after school care? That eats in to the necessary second wage though. Are your parents happy to look after your kid after school while you work?

But then your kid is knackered after a long day so they don’t want to do their homework before dinner so they have to do it after dinner. But what about a bath? What about sports day and parents afternoons?

What about your caseloads and the preparation you have to do for work at home?

There are a million reasons why one parent might think - actually, it’s easier for everyone for me not to work for a bit. But none of those problems go away, and suddenly you’ve been out of work for another five years. Where do you start?

You can retrain - so long as you find a course during the day because your kids still need picked up and your chef husband works evenings. You don’t know how things work in your own industry any more, and there’s a ten-year drip of people coming in to your industry who are much more up to date than you.

Calling this scenario ‘laziness’ is unfair.

I've been a SAHM on and off for 19 years. Mostly off and I haven't worked or done any training now for 9 years straight.
DH and I have discussed it at various stages and agreed on how we will proceed.
If he changed his mind on the agreement I would be upset and pissed off as I would have made different choices to make it easier to go back into work.

@Pumperthepumper what's your problem?

I thought you wanted other opinions to you and your friend?!

It’s mainly the bit where you can’t see any issues in your own industry with a thirteen year career break, and have started a thread on a parenting website to slag off a parent when you know nothing whatsoever about it, or their circumstances. Did you want me to join in with ‘what a lazy cow, she could go back to work tomorrow, her poor husband?’

And if he's a chef I bet she does everything else at home and with the kids. Chefs tend to work insane hours and their partners carry the load at home from what I've seen my dh is a chef and this is spot on. I work part time but it is incredibly hard to find shifts that work around his shifts so that one of us is always at home with the kids. I waitress at the same restaurant so we can work around each other but are like ships in the night most weeks. Even when both dc's are at school it will be hard for me to work full time in the same job because there are fuck all shifts available during the day, they need you evenings and weekends (which is when they also need dh the most).

I think once the children are at primary school, any agreement to be a stay at home parent needs re-evaluating. However I imagine if you haven't worked for 13 years, it must be fairly daunting to go back especially if you haven't done anything for your cv in that period.

By the sound of it, they need a proper discussion without input from anyone else and he needs to find out why she got so angry about it. Was it just out of the blue, does she have confidence issues, does she get on with her parents/PiL, could she be upset that he's possibly discussed it already with her parents/PiL behind her back.

Obviously it changed, but it's not like she has to learn new legislation for Criminal law, isn't it...
No, but she's at the bottom of the list for a job offer if everyone else is up to speed.

Once your kid is in school, I don't see the argument for not working unless your partner is so high earning that you don't have to.

I became a SAHP when my (then) youngest started school. Taking him to nursery at 7.30am and picking him up at 5.30pm was much easier than taking him to one childminder at 7.30, collecting him from another at 5.30 and trying to cobble together a combination of childminders and kids clubs during the holidays.

Then you have that first year or so of high school whereby all childcare locally assumes you don't need them anymore, but they aren't quite mature enough to be left for 2/3 hours a day every single day plus all day in the holidays.

@Pumperthepumper ok, I take your point. Everyone's situation is different. Some have family to help and some can't. Perhaps I am just oversensitive about it because out of all my friends/contemporaries who had babies the same time as I did, I'm the only one currently not working and often worry that I'm considered lazy.

Plus, my mother was a SAHP. My father died suddenly at a young age and she had to claw her way back into her profession which I know she found incredibly hard. I personally wouldn't want to be in that situation.

@Pumperthepumper others have given opinions and I am grateful for it. You on the other hand have so far provided sarcastic bs.

I posted here so I can see opinions of people who actually have experience with it exactly because I don't. As I said. I think SIBU but having opinion doesn't mean I am not interested in other's opinions. That's how people learn about things.

And re the changes in industry. As I said, it's not as bad as many others. EPOS 12 years ago, when I started in it, looked pretty much like EPOS today unless we talk about super modern tablet in hand ordering system.
EVERY place provides training for new starters to get their system anyway.

And no. I don't want you to join in with lazy cow comments. Just simply saying your opinion or experience without being immediately bitchy. Others have managed that.

While the scenario you posted is specific, the question itself is general. All families have different situations so it is impossible for people to judge without having the facts.

If you have someone to mind your children during holidays/sick days/ curriculum days/ after school/before school or if you are happy to wake your children at the crack of dawn to drop them off at before school care or have them in after school care until work knock off time then that is great for you but if someone has no family or friends to do all the care above and doesn't want/need to give up the time they have with their children then they are still required at home with the children.

Yes you could go back to night work if your partner is a 9-5 worker but then you drastically limit the time you spend with you children and partner as well as likely surviving on a few hours sleep so you can be up to get the kids ready for school while your 9 - 5 partner gets a full night sleep so as a family you need to decide whether the role of SAHP is still relevant regardless of the age of the children.

P.S Mind your own business on this one - you are only getting one side of the story.

Stay well out of it OP. Involving yourself in this in any capacity would be a terrible idea.

That said, if she came on here looking for advice, I'd tell her to start planning her return to the workplace. Simply because I wouldn't want to be the unpaid at home person and facilitator, and if he's a chef working those hours she most certainly is facilitating it, in a family unit where the earner has started to resent the setup. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that. And FWIW I think the question of which, if either of them is BU will depend very much on the specifics.

Also if she finds work in the morning/early afternoon and he works afternoons, evenings and weekends when do they see each other?

She is being very unreasonable, but I still don’t fully understand your question or what you mean by stay at home person? I was a SAHM for a year and a half when first DC was born - me and DH agreed on this together and if at some point it was going to have a negative financial impact, like not being able to afford holidays, then I would have gone back to work earlier than planned. If you want to be SAHM when you’re kids are in school then I think that’s completely fine as long as the partner who is supporting the family financially is happy with that - if they’re not happy with this and are working crazy long hours while the other partner is just at home 9-3 for no good reason other than they just don’t feel like working then of course that’s just taking the piss.

Plus, my mother was a SAHP. My father died suddenly at a young age and she had to claw her way back into her profession which I know she found incredibly hard. I personally wouldn't want to be in that situation.

No, of course not. But you’ve already had a two year gap which is significant with even the most sympathetic industry. The acceptable time for a gap in your cv is very small when ‘childcare’ is the reason for that gap, I think, and my point is that it’s not always as simple as laziness. Anyway, best of luck with it all