When does a SAHP become a SAHP

[HouseholdPlantMurderer]

Had a discussion with a friend, both childless, about SAHP and we wondered when does Stay At Home Parent becomes simply a Stay At Home Person.
Discussion came about because a common friend of ours asked his wife if she started looking for a job and of she needs some help with it since children are now 12 and 13 and are really quite matured for the age so can be left alone for few hours in the afternoon. They wouldn't even have to be if she found early early start job as he works evenings. She flipped saying they agreed she can be SAHP. He is now miserable because she is angry, he is resentful because he didn't think he will have to do 65+ hours a week for 18 years yet still can't afford nice holidays and such. They could if the wife worked too.
They have his grand parents nearby who wouldn't mind minding the kids over holiday times.
We think she is being massively unreasonable.

So I ask MN. When does SAH Parent become a SAH Person?

It isn't any where near as clear cut as you've implied in your op.
If he doesn't do anything round the house leaving her to do it all, and if her children do loads of activities which she alone taxis them to and organises, and if she does all the cooking and cooks from scratch, and if she alone helps them with heir homework - then that is potentially 8 hours 'work' per day, possibly 7 days a week.
But, if her kids do nothing after school, dinner is a pizza, and housework is shared; then yes, of course she should contribute financially now.

According to the U.K. Gov, you are a stay at home parent until the youngest is age 12 because if you claim child benefit you automatically get the same NIC credit towards the state pension as a FT working person.

My personal opinion is a person is considered a stay at home parent until the youngest is 18. Yes teens are pretty independent but they can get into more serious scrapes and often need help more than any primary school aged kid.

I don't personally see why the parent should remain a SAHM when their kids are that age. I'd be climbing the walls and desperate for work. Just seems lazy.

hmm Obviously it changed, but it's not like she has to learn new legislation for Criminal law, isn't it...

I agree with you! The hospitality industry is a piss-easy job, it’s barely even considered a job because it’s so low-skilled and it never, ever changes - absolutely no reason why she might feel anxious after going back to a job in the hospitality industry thirteen years later, as well as having to juggle childcare for a 12 and 13 year old who, quite frankly, should be living independently now. AND her husband has two friends who think she’s unreasonable because they also work in the unchanging hospitality industry and know themselves how low skilled it is and how you could easily walk back into it after a break of 1.3 decades and pick up exactly where you left off because that’s the nature of the hospitality industry.

If my OH was working 65 hours a week and scraping by I would want to work to be honest. Your DCs can still do activities, we managed. I worked 9 till 3, cooked from scratch did activity runs. Of course if I had health issues that might be different.

Unless you have been there it’s hard to comment.

I am 8 months into maternity leave and I am terrified of returning to work in 4 months
Time.

Part is leaving my sun to be raised by strangers 5 days a week ( he is literally going to be raised by someone else! ☹️) part is I fear other kids might be mean to him ( kids get bruises and bitten by their peers at that age 😢
What if he is sick and he has to wait an hour for me to get to him?

The selfish fears are, my job which I am trained up on changes so Quickly I have no clue what I am walking into and I am going to be expected to pick it up quickly

How I used to put in extra hours without even thinking about it, getting to work early ... leaving late without a thought and how
It’s expected and now I am going to be running out the door

How I have lost the confidence to talk to people and lost confidence in what my capabilities are and although yes I am
Returning to work full time I do not earn the most by a long shot so I will need to carve out the flexibility to do the runs to nursery / school to meet our child’s need and i don’t know how that’s going to work and how judged I may be by others for needing to leave on time.

It’s taken a competent person with confidence to feel so anxious about 8 months... I imagine 12 years is a lot worse.

Absolutely I understand his concerns and stress I worried about my brother being the sole Earner but that’s between husband and wife.

Kids are so life changing but you never realise until you are there, it doesn’t mean it’s impossible for her to do what her husbands asking but has he thought about what may be her concerns and reassured her he will be home x y and z ... he will pick up different chores.

The expectation is she finds a job that fits around his when being out of work so long will make her less up to date less employable , and let’s face it she is going to have a list of demands around hours to
Suit husband/ kids needs ... we all fear rejection and she is most likely thinking ... would you employee someone that has been out of work 13 years vs someone fresh from a precious job with up to date it skills that requires less training and therefore less effort with less commitments so they can work around the business needs?

That’s how I am spiralling anyhow! She may have a different train of thought x

He cooks (is reallllly good. He must be since he gets paid for it professionally) and so does the food shop as he knows what to buy and has access to cash and carries. He cooks batches and used to even occasionally bring some to eork for us to taste. Plus she doesn't drive so it's easier that way. I don't know about cleaning, but I would assume the wife does it? Considering his working hours and children at school? I don't know about the rest. I just know the cooking and shopping since we talk about food a lot when we meet up.

This will all depend on their circumstances TBH.As others have said here ,If no financial worries no probs. However most people would baulk at having to do 65 hours P/W just to keep afloat!.The main concern for this lady is if he decides to divorce ,she will be left on a rather sticky wicket!.What about a job as a TA or Nursery , These jobs are highly sought after ,but she could offer to help in a voluntary capacity and may then be chosen for a P/T job.The facts are that if one person becomes resentful the this will lead to a lot of stress for the family .She probably does the lions share of H/W and so on, and worries that she will have the job to deal with as well!.He will need to help around the house more .They will need to discuss this in depth TBH

I'm a SAHP at the moment.

Whilst on maternity leave I said to DH that I didn't want to go back to work (i hadn't latterly been enjoying it) and he agreed that we could manage financially for a period of time but not forever, particularly given the cost of full time childcare/nursery.

DS is now 2.3 and though we'll still need to pay for some childcare until he gets his free hours, I'm looking for some part time work to give myself a different focus. I've always taken the view that being a SAHP is either a luxury if one partner earns really well or somewhat of a necessity given childcare costs so still being a SAHP when your kids are well into school, particularly secondary school is, in my opinion, a bit lazy.

I took a break to raise two children six years. I did some evening work in the meantime when OH came home. I did some retraining courses then so I could find a job 9-3. I think having a 13 year career break is a bit of a cheek plus how boring to be stuck at home all day when kids are at school.

There are benefits to having a SAHP as it does allow children to be more closely supervised and on a shorter leash but this can only work if both parents are on the same page. DP and I agree I would be the SAHP as I do have an independent income that allowes me to stay at home. It needs to be a joined decision though. By the sounds they both need to sit down and discuss what they want for the children and what they expect of each other to facilitate this

She doesn’t drive? That will make it easier for her to work. I’m assuming he is a chef? That will be unsociable hours so she’ll be having to work around his so that someone is home for the DCs.

OP,
Since you're so concerned and are absolutely certain that she has the relevant skill set, why don't you offer to find her that perfect job which is also part time and flexible and fits around her husband and kids needs because obviously the dh can only offer to pick up some of the slack at the weekends.

Not the same but similar. I went part time when j had DC's as did another family member. Her DH asked me how long I intended to be part time (to compare as I found out, to what his dw had said). I said when they were in secondary school which apparently matched what his dw planned - he at the time thought she was being unreasonable to want to be part time for so long.

As it happens she didn't enjoy being part time once their dc started school so went back full time and I did once mine were in juniors.

Personally unless both parents are happy then once all DC's are at school I think it's reasonable to expect both parents to work and it certainly isn't unreasonable for the working parent to expect a financial contribution from their partner at this point.

I worked with someone many years ago who wasn't very happy that his wife still refused to get a job despite all 3 children being in snr school. He realised when starting to work with us how unusual she was as most of the woman at work had children and still managed to work at lest part time but many full time. Her reason for not working was snd needed a nap on an afternoon 🙄

a common friend of ours asked his wife if she started looking for a job and of she needs some help with it since children are now 12 and 13

You mean he asked her this question right out of the blue after 13 years at home? Never raised it before? Never discussed it with her? There's probably a whole backstory that you and your friend don't know.

We have no idea what's reasonable for them. You're only hearing one side so chances are neither do you.

Most young teens from 13/14 (11, 12 maybe) would be fine being latchkey kids,

See, I don't know any parents whose kids of that age are 'latchkey'.

Interesting two PoVs here. ^^

Leave school at 3.30, school bus, mosey round the shopping centre, home at 5 or 5.30... we might have got in at the same time, I might have been in half hour before, or half hour after. Oddly none of mine ever got lost/burned the house down/got anyone pregnant/whacked a line of coke up their nose/got arrested.

I don't know anyone who could afford to run a house on one salary when my children were of that age (15 years ago)

In this situation the the woman is completely unreasonable as her husband is not happy with still having to shoulder all the financial burden.

For me, as soon as the children are all at school is when you're no longer a stay at home parent, you're somebody who doesn't work.

So he works evenings and long hours which means she needs to be home in the evening. Basically she should just get off her backside and get one of those school hour jobs - you know, the ones that are sooooo plentiful available...

How many hospitality jobs are there during school hours? Readily available for someone who has been out of the workplace for over a decade?

And if he's a chef I bet she does everything else at home and with the kids. Chefs tend to work insane hours and their partners carry the load at home from what I've seen.

• So he works evenings and long hours which means she needs to be home in the evening. Basically she should just get off her backside and get one of those school hour jobs - you know, the ones that are sooooo plentiful available...

How many hospitality jobs are there during school hours? Readily available for someone who has been out of the workplace for over a decade?

And if he's a chef I bet she does everything else at home and with the kids. Chefs tend to work insane hours and their partners carry the load at home from what I've seen.*

This so much

I've always taken the view that being a SAHP is either a luxury if one partner earns really well or somewhat of a necessity given childcare costs so still being a SAHP when your kids are well into school, particularly secondary school is, in my opinion, a bit lazy.

Could you walk back into your old job tomorrow, after a gap of only 2.3 years, without feeling the slightest bit apprehensive about it? Imagine having been out for five times that long, having been at home with your children all that time - still able to walk straight back to it?

You mean he asked her this question right out of the blue after 13 years at home?
That would admittedly be very unreasonable from him.

Again. No problem with DC as GP will happily have them if needed. He does have an option of evenings only. I've just realised that there was a part of a sentence missing in my OP🙄 However, that means less hours than is needed.

Thank some of you for describing the experience!
Good luck to you all returning to work and @Newmumma83

I was thinking about giving him a contact for an agency here which helps women back to work as we had number of them for training and references at work and they all said it helps. But I do think that would be me butting into it, which is what I don't want to do...

Why would she need training?

Even with him cooking op, it still isn't necessarily the case that's she's all bad, and he's all good, there's so much more to it. She might well be, btw, but not definitely.

If he works odd hours, and lots of them, and she doesn't drive, but still feels someone needs to cook their dc a decent dinner, and help with hw, then someone has to commit to being at home, say 5pm -8pm. If he can't do it 100% of the time, then, she has to; even that means she's twiddling her thumbs for 4 hours a day. That means she has to find a job that accommodates someone who's been out of work for 12 years, that she can get to without a car, and that definitely finishes in time for her to be home by 5.

The person who is working benefits massively from someone being at home (assuming they're pulling their weight). They never have to worry or consider if they can stay late that particular day; don't have to do any of the chores that two parents working have to do on the weekends and evenings, because it's all been done during the week; basically they don't have to worry at all about their children's upbringing, they just get to enjoy it, the responsibility has been taken care of.

@lyralalala we hvae lots of breakfast and lunch time independent cafes here and there are jobs which pop out from time to time. And plentiful of hotels. No one expects her to find job next day. It always takes time. It's just we wondered about unreasonability of the refusal to try
However, as pp pointed out, if he just asked out of the blue, HIB quite U.

I get that it's difficult returning to work after a break of 13 years.

But what do these women expect will happen??