..to ask all Leave supporters ( and anyone else) to write to their MP and say you will accept an NI only backstop so that we can leave the EU in an orderly way on 31 October 2019?

[bellinisurge]

Just that. We could leave on that basis . The EU is up for it. Are you?

@bellinisurge
What violence would return if we avoid trashing GFA?

I think the same violence would erupt if we forcibly reunite Ireland against their will as would happen if we forcibly take NI out of the UK against their will. I dont want either.

But I believe all three parties involved when they say they will not erect a hard border on the island after Brexit. So just like we did with Scotland we can let the public have their say.

@Vasya , if you voted Leave that is exactly what you did. If you voted Remain, we face the real prospect of No Deal and it is everyone's duty to protect GFA. Yes, duty. I said it.

bellinisurge

With where we are I agree, But then staying in the SM and CU was what I would have liked.

The problem with the DUP is that their supporters are as likely to kick off as the other side.

@newstart1337 the public in NI had their day and voted Remain. This is not a "suck it and see" situation.
Maybe it's the glass of wine I have just had but @Feduppluckingmychinhairs ' post almost has me in tears. Read it, @newstart1337 , it says more about it than I ever could. Won't stop me trying.
Thank you @Feduppluckingmychinhairs

BELLINISURGE the eu have stated many times that the backstop remains, they back the republic of ireland on that, and the irish lobby in the u s a is very strong so Trump may not be able to produce the great deals with Boris if the good friday agreement is put in jeoprady

Yes. @isadoradancing123 the NI backstop should remain. Varadkar has said drop your red lines and we can talk. The current All UK backstop which everyone is getting so pissed off about is a UK Red Line. The EU has said on several occasions that it would be ok with an NI only backstop.
I genuinely don't see why you think I am against the NI backstop.

@Feduppluckingmychinhairs your post should be written verbatim on the front page of every uk newspaper and everyone made to read it. It is heartfelt, honest, compassionate and shows exactly what the loons in the Tory party are risking. Shame on them all.

It would then be a backdoor for food that do not meet european standards to enter the country, such as the chlorinated chicken to name just one

The backstop is gonna cause problems with DUP. I’m not sure there is a border solution that respects GFA and would be acceptable to people of NI. The issues are in some way a legacy of British interference in Ireland. It would be a small inconvenience to remain in EU until a border solution acceptable to people of NI was found (at least compared to problems caused by empire).

@bellinisurge the public in NI had their day and voted Remain. This is not a "suck it and see" situation

NI voted for the UK to stay in the EU, the UK as a whole voted to leave. When we have left, if the NI wants to leave the UK and rejoin the EU I will support them, just as I would have supported Scotland leaving the UK, if they had wanted.

I agree this is not a "suck it and see" situation we have to leave as the UK public and MPs voted for, this purgatory is destroying us. The only solution I can see is post Brexit, what other solution is their?

@isadoradancing123 which is why, as I have just said, the border should be in the sea. So shit is checked before it gets onto the island of Ireland. That's exactly what I said.
There are two backstop proposals in WA. One is the UK wide one which has been rejected, tbe other is the NI only one which has been woven into and not separated from the UK wide one. Tbe UK wide one is the UK's red line to pretend that NI is exactly like rUK to protect the sensibilities of DUP. Tbe NI one is to protect GFA.

@Feduppluckingmychinhairs bravo

This is what I fear. Things just seem to be getting worse. I honestly can see another omagh type incident

@bellinisurge - NI only backstop will cause problems with DUP and loyalist extremists. The only solution is to remain in EU until we develop the technology to have a seamless border. Idiot politicians who cannot do a fully digital tax system or digitise nhs records should not be promising a ‘tech’ solution as if it is trivial.

The main problem was that Teresa May sold us out by joining up with the DUP , they will never agree to anything resembling sanity! You only have to listen to Sammy Davis and Nigel Dodd and Arline Foster spouting hate ,

I'm Irish living in England for the past 25 years.
You can't break up a United nations peace treaty signed by England and Ireland and supervised by the United states

@isadoradancing123 , and I am saying fuck tbe DUP, protect GFA.

I do wonder what people will find to talk / argue about when it's all done and dusted.

I know this was a few pages ago, but when will it be 'all done and dusted' exactly? Do people really believe that we crash out of the EU on 31st October and that's it, nothing left to sort out?

So if the UK doesn't want a border with Ireland, and Ireland doesn't want a border with the UK, who is going to build one and man it? Will the EU send over a team of German builders to construct it and a squad of French bureaucrats to run it?

@Anybody.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44054594

Both sides would probably have to put up infrastructure. Otherwise if UK allowed chlorinated chicken from US, it could travel into EU. And vice versa with stuff the EU allow but against UK policy. I don’t think there is a border as an example which is frictionless as it is now in Ireland.

I understand why the EU wants a border but I struggle to understand how if neither country wants to put one in place it will actually happen.
Exactly who is going to put one in place?

yeah - it’s contradictory. They will either go against what they are saying - ie put up infrastructure to protect their standards.

Or weaken their standards to accept whatever the UK does (and UK would do the same) to preserve GFA. I’m guessing brexiteers would bet on this. But I think the EU love their standards too much...

Or make it any deal punitive to UK if it diverges from EU standards.

I'm a remainer but see where you're coming from. However I can't see anyone going for it and has it actually been suggested by the government as a compromise? How do the people of NI feel about it as 44% voted to leave. I have no idea why considering the impact on the GFA but vote to leave they did. I might start a thread about it and prepare to be slammed. I genuinely can't see a way forward to brexit without major issues. No fucker in charge thought this through at all. TM for all her many faults at least tried to protect NI with the backstop.

For those who like me get befuddled with it all at times and forget the ins and outs, this article is good:

fullfact.org/europe/irish-backstop/

The people who would need the most convincing are the DUP. If they had any sense they would see it as an opportunity to entrench their position in an economically reinforced NI. Rather than the alternative of No Deal which makes (re) unification more likely.

chergar

In all seriousness though, the original referendum was voted on a pack of lies, not mistruths, actual bare faced lies.

If leave are so confident they can win without the use of lies what harm does a second referendum do?

As for democracy and will of the people surely it is undemocratic to plod on with Brexit when the electorate were deliberately lied to and not given the facts and means to make a rational choice.

this exactly

I understand why the EU wants a border but I struggle to understand how if neither country wants to put one in place it will actually happen

On day one, no one will but over time, as the UK departs from EU regs, the EU will need to protect its SM, why should a family in France risk feeding their children hormone treated beef because it has been imported/smuggled from NI, relabeled and sold on as ROI finest organic?

Following on from that... businesses in UK pay more for, say car parts (insert any hi tariff import) due to WTO tariffs, the wise consumer buys from ROI, businesses in UK/NI go bust... demands for a border to stop this trade.

Any tech solutions can work with legitimate business but fail completely against criminality.