..to ask all Leave supporters ( and anyone else) to write to their MP and say you will accept an NI only backstop so that we can leave the EU in an orderly way on 31 October 2019?

[bellinisurge]

Just that. We could leave on that basis . The EU is up for it. Are you?

Isadora I didn't say I supported a border poll, but SF are thinking that way.

Please explain what the violence will be about. Has life and people not move on, are you really saying people will have so little self control.

No. You have very little understanding of the political situation though - thats obvious.

The wonder of the GFA was that it allowed both sides to identify with whichever nationality they wanted to.

As a NI Catholic, I could legally call myself Irish.

That did a huge amount to heal the resentment that Catholic NI has felt over the years.

Now, can you open your mind just the tiniest bit to understand what putting up a whacking great hard border between NI and the Republic is going to mean for those people who see themselves as Irish?

I really want to know.
Your saying that people will have so little self control they will fight.

mummy2017, there are 272 points that you can cross the border between NI and the ROI over a distance of 499km. A huge number of these crossings are in exceptionally rural areas where you can barely get a phone signal, let alone have high quality CCTV footage.

The violence will be about the same thing it's always been about - those that want a united Ireland by any means necessary, and do not recognise the presence of Britain in NI. You're asking people who are militant in these beliefs to exercise self-control, as well as those who militantly believe in ensuring that NI remains a part of Britain to have self-control. There may be less of them than in previous decades, but still enough of them to cause the deaths of who knows how many people.

The backstop seems to be the only solution to the very unique NI situation. A hard border would be catastrophic for NI, and I think in direct contravention of the GFA.

Nothing will break up the U.K. as fast as a hard Brexit. NI will have no choice but to look to joining with the republic. A special economic zone, such as a NI backstop will allow those who wish to be British remain so without destroying the economy and hard won peace and keep NI in the U.K. It’s what the majority of NI want, and allows GB to pursue its own trade deals without being held responsible for deliberately wrecking one of the most celebrated peace deals of recent times.

And it’s a backstop, a last resort scenario in case you can’t get a good deal. Surely Brexiteers must believe the negotiating skills of HMG can avoid this?

In pissing all over the GFA the UK will also be dishonouring a hugely successful, hard won international treaty.

Who would want to do business with a country who behaves like that? No one same let me tell you.

The US have already been damn clear about the consequences (no trade deal) if they go down that route.

A border poll won't necessarily be any kind of solution. ROI may not want to accept NI.

I do understand about the amount of roads that cross from one side to the other, what I find hard to get my head around is that it is being stated as if it is fact every person in Ireland will be attacking each other.
I think times have moved on and technology will end up as the way forward.
An electronic wall.

Its not about self control, that is way way too simplistic, its not “people” who will fight, its the terrorists on both sides, do you know that there are currently bonfires burning effagies of the pope and the irish flag, someone in parliament complained last week that pictures of the queen offended him, peace is very fragile, its not about self control but hundreds of years of hatred and bigotary

mummmy2017 It’s nit up to posters to educate you out of your ignorance. Do some research.

*its not

Mummy you are the archetypal ill-educated sasneach.

“What would the violence be about” - I am honestly in despair.... really????!!

After 800 years, and the particularly bloody 30 years of “troubles” ☠️
When Irish, British and Northern Irish people (men, women and children) killed each other, starved themselves to death, planted bombs, attacked each other (and themselves) hated and despised and feared the other side...
All that came to an end, Mummy, with the Good Friday Agreement.

A beautiful sleight of genius political craft which said people in the North could identify as Irish, British or indeed both. A delicate peace came about.

People could co-exist, accept difference. It’s not perfect. There are still problems. It’s gossamer thin, this peace, but it’s there.

And now, Boris Johnson and his mates - none of whom most assuredly do not give a single continental fuck about either you or me - and certainly not the people of NI are cheerfully going to rip all that work, and our precious peace asunder.

Read a fucking book.

I think times have moved on and technology will end up as the way forward

I don’t think you have the slightest clue of the ramifications of what you’re talking about.

Have you ever even been to NI for example?

An electronic wall 😂

Heard it all now.

I haven’t heard chat about electronic solutions for at least a year after it became clear that nothing was fit for purpose and the idiots shut up.

So great to see it being raised again on here

An electronic wall?! Where can we find one of these please? I wish someone had thought of that already

Eh... if you could point me in the direction of these statements that "every person in Ireland will be attacking each other", mummy2017?

Thought not.

Also... an "electronic wall"? Really?

@isadoradancing123 - the NI only backstop allows NI to remain in the single market and the customs union unless and until they find some technological marvel that allows goods to pass across the NI/ROI border without the slightest infrastructure. Until then goods pass between NI and ROI as they do now and, where they are coming to the UK mainland, border checks are ostensibly done during the crossing or at the first UK mainland port. And vice versa so that there is no border on the island of Ireland. Thus complying with GFA AND the WTO requirement that you have control of your economic area.
My mum is Irish born. I'm old. I live in NW England. I know my fecking history. Stop fecking shouting.

bellinisurge I can respect that, and that being the case you surely understand the RAGE (yes that’s shouty) at the blind ignorance

Nobody wants a return to death and maiming and bloodshed on this island. Forgive us if we become somewhat exercised at the prospect

I don't live in NI or ROI so I really don't think it's up to me or anyone else living in England, Scotland or Wales to tell NI or ROI what they should accept in respect of borders.

@CilantroChili , I voted Remain. That's my preference. But if we have to leave, I won't accept No Deal. The NI backstop, or as I call it "make NI a special economic area " is the only way we can leave in an orderly way and protect GFA. Which is, in my view, The single most magical and wonderful thing that's happened in politics in my lifetime. And it must be protected. If we have to Leave this is how we should do it. And the fecking DUP gets to be a big fish in a small pond a bit longer. Bunch of fucking creationist loons that they are.

bellinisurge

I doubt that the DUP will be happy whatever the outcome.

@BoneyBackJefferson Fuck 'em. My suggestion is the least worst option for them.

I tend to stay away from these posts as they upset and frustrate me greatly. I live in a border county. Catholic Irish. We won't be out fighting with our protestant neighbours. In fact we get on very well and regularly have a glass of wine together. It's the mad bastards, whether it be IRA or Loyalists who will plant a big bomb one day I am walking into Bravissimo for a bra or B+Q for a plug for my sink or my local coffee shop. And blow my lovely children to bits. We are normal people here the same as anyone on MN. Trying our best to rear children. Getting them ready for going back to school. Bringing them swimming. Kissing them every night at bedtime. I don't want my children to grow up in a country of fear and hatred. I want them to live in this lovely, friendly, peaceful, welcoming place that we have lived since 10 April 1998.

Any person who is happy to shit on the backstop - if we return to war and slaughter here, go to bed at night knowing you have blood on your hands.

I don't have the eloquent words. And I can't do great debate. I just know I am a mother and I am so very, very worried for my lovely, innocent children.