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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Paying Keep

412 replies

Lee17 · 06/08/2019 17:23

Hi All,
My 16 yr old daughter has left school is earning now. She is on an Apprenticeship, which starts officially in September. She is earning about £130 a week at the minute, which may well go up if she does more hours. Now, I think it is reasonable for her to pay a little towards her keep. At the moment we are encouraging her to save half, which she is doing but when we mentioned keep she threw a wobbly. Is it reasonable to ask her to pay say £25 a week, then save half of the rest and have the other half to spend as she pleases? My husband and I were brought up to pay keep, many, many years ago! And back then in the early 80s, he was paying about £20 and I was about £15. Any advice please? I think they need to appreciate how long it takes to earn what they intend to spend and to evaluate the cost and if it is worth it. We pay for everything for her at the minute, apart from extra clothes and makeup. Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Keep or no Keep?

OP posts:
iolaus · 23/01/2020 22:29

I didn't think you got child benefit if they had an apprenticeship

If you do get child benefit then I wouldn't charge them at all

My eldest (working) gives us approximately 10% of her wages - it is up to her whether or not she saves or spends the rest - although we do encourage her to save it - she seems to save about 50% of it, however some months (such as December where she was buying xmas presents) she saves less.

GreytExpectations · 23/01/2020 22:38

Op, I work full time to pay my mortgage, bills and car payments. Not sure what that has to do with anything but why did you post this thread if you were going to get all stroppy when people don't agree with you? 16 is not an adult, it's a child.

Bluerussian · 23/01/2020 22:51

The op will not be able to claim child benefit for her daughter doing an apprenticeship! That has been said several times.

Presumably her daughter will be buying her own clothes, bits and pieces etc, out of her apprentice 'wages', prior to which parents had to buy them, so the op will immediately be better off.

Original poster
Lee17 · 24/01/2020 09:17

We don't MAKE her save, we encourage her. I have never said we make her. She does as she chooses and of course there are times when she doesn't. It is up to her. She has realised she likes having her savings grow and she now evaluates how she spends her money and acknowledges that if she blows a lot one week, the next week she can start again if she wishes. The whole point of it, is to gently get her used to budgeting and appreciating that everything costs. BlueRussian. It isn't about being 'better off'; it never has been. And of course we aren't better off anyway. We all have differing opinions. And for people to say I shouldn't have posted if I don't like criticism. That is rubbish. What I don't like is how I have been bombarded with nasty comments. Character assassination. The whole point was to get a balanced view. But if I don't agree, then I am the one in the wrong. I can't win. I am certainly not overbearing to my daughter, what a joke to say that. Is making sure she doesn't get into debt, can learn to manage her finances etc overbearing? She is old enough to be in a working environment and with that comes responsibilities, one of which is to learn to handle her finances. The amount of keep, or whatever you want to call it (even been maligned for that!) is just a token. For goodness sake, it is just trying to gently get her to start preparing for how to start to manage her own money. Parenting is about teaching, supporting etc which I feel I am doing. Just because I still do things for her, and of course we pay loads of things out for her, doesn't mean she is having a skewed view. ??? How is that skewed. So just let her spend, spend, spend, blow all her money every week, have disregard to financial value etc, is better? She is getting a glimpse of real life, and working IS real life, managing money IS real life. And at 16, she is mature enough to understand this. We feel this is best for her and that is what is important. It isn't what is best for us, never has been about that. And as for criticising me for saying we have a lovely relationship etc, and someone was ignorant enough to quote 'blah, blah', it was in response so that people could know that our relationship is good, underpinned by love. What is wrong with that? Obviously our outlook on working, managing money etc differs from many others. But at the end of the day, we are who we are and we do as we do. Asking for opinions wasn't meant to open a floodgate of aggressive disagreement with me. Didn't think that was how it worked on here. And again, to those who have taken their time to politely discuss with me, whether in agreement or not, I thank you. I think the post on here has reached its conclusion now. Thankyou.

OP posts:
Ishotmrburns · 24/01/2020 09:29

Yanbu to expect her to pay keep, £25 sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I think it's great idea. But YABU to tell her she must save half of her money. It's obviously a good idea to do that but you can't make her and nor should you try. Just suggest it. She can do what she likes with her money that's left over after she's paid her keep.

Ishotmrburns · 24/01/2020 09:31

Oh wow, I have never seen such a perfect rtft. Grin

DiegoSaber · 24/01/2020 09:32

Asking for opinions wasn't meant to open a floodgate of aggressive disagreement with me. Didn't think that was how it worked on here

TBF, that 100% is how this place works. Most AIBU threads devolve into slanging matches within just a few posts.

BlueJava · 24/01/2020 09:35

Personally I wouldn't charge my DS as long as they saved. However, they the one that's earning did offer to pay keep and has no bad attitude and helps (does dinner for everyone 1 night/week), cleans, generally helps. He has therefore put what he "reserved" to pay me into savings, along with his other savings. DP and me view it as the house and his room is here anyway and he probably doesn't cost a lot!

user246854 · 24/01/2020 09:37

My DD16 is on apprentice she earns £780 a month out of that she dives me £130 (£50 phone bill and £80 keep) she's good st saving and saves minimum of £300 a month and she pays her bus pass which is £65 a month

If she's earning she should pay keep even if only a token amount

user246854 · 24/01/2020 09:39

IAskToManyQuestions no you don't get child benefit or tax credits if they are on an apprentice

Nicolastuffedone · 24/01/2020 09:41

Yes! We always paid ‘dig’ money. If I was old enough to earn, I was old enough to pay towards the household (where I got everything done for me!!! )

Haybo26 · 24/01/2020 09:45

An apprenticeship is a job...not further education. I think she should pay keep. I got a full time job at the age of 16...earned £800 a month and of that I paid £200 keep.

Haybo26 · 24/01/2020 09:46

The person who said you will still get child benefit for her as an apprentice is wholly incorrect. And apprenticeship is a paid job...therefore child benefit will stop.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/01/2020 09:47

Yep.

It’s a real job, with hands-on experience, a salary and the chance to train while you work. You’re treated just like all the other employees, with a contract of employment and holiday leave.

If you’re 16 or over, you can become an apprentice as long as you spend at least 50% of your working hours in England - for the duration of the apprenticeship and you are not in full-time education.

www.apprenticeships.gov.uk/apprentice/what-is-an-apprenticeship#

Haybo26 · 24/01/2020 09:47

The person who said you will still get child benefit for her as an apprentice is wholly incorrect. An apprenticeship is a paid job...therefore child benefit will stop.

KatherineJaneway · 24/01/2020 10:13

YANBU.

I always knew growing up that once I left education and was earning money I'd have to pay money for my keep. It's a good life lesson that you can't live off others and need to pay your way.

woodchuck99 · 24/01/2020 10:22

Whilst I understand your reasoning I don't think I would expect her to save if I was charging keep. I don't agree that it is an essential life lesson. I never paid my parents any money for rent when I was earning and it certainly hasn't made me not understand that you need you pay your way. For most people it's a bit obvious and doesn't require lessons.

I think that I would wait-and-see how she is with her money first. If she seems quite frugal and is clearly saving I would let her get on with it. If she appeared to be living the high life and spending the money like water then I probably would charge "keep" and give it back to her when she is older and more responsible. At her age I think the most important thing is to encourage her to manage money and save.

woodchuck99 · 24/01/2020 10:24

Asking for opinions wasn't meant to open a floodgate of aggressive disagreement with me. Didn't think that was how it worked on here

You obviously haven't read many threads then!

LolaSmiles · 24/01/2020 10:26

curious
The government website says at 16 they have to be doing one of the following:

You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:
Stay in full-time education, for example at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
Spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training

This is where I think there's a difference of opinion.
Some people on here seem to think that earning £3.90 an hour in a vocational route as part of mandatory post-16 education or training is a child continuing their education/training, others think the second a 16 year old has left school they're an adult and therefore their apprenticeship should be treated like a full time job with an they should be paying their parents to live at home.

Personally a 16 year old is a child, they're being paid substantially less than NMW (which is why companies and councils are keen to offer the posts as they can all save themselves money with the apprenticeship levy too), they have to be in some form of education/training and parents shouldnt be charging their children to live at home.

What I don't understand is if things are financially tight why the OP doesn't cut back on funding luxuries and treats for the DC instead of charging one child to live at home. In terms of teaching financial responsibility that makes much more sense.

woodchuck99 · 24/01/2020 10:26

Personally I wouldn't charge my DS as long as they saved. However, they the one that's earning did offer to pay keep and has no bad attitude and helps (does dinner for everyone 1 night/week), cleans, generally helps. He has therefore put what he "reserved" to pay me into savings, along with his other savings.

Yes, that is what I would encourage and I think OP should give her DD the chance to do this first.

woodchuck99 · 24/01/2020 10:28

We don't MAKE her save, we encourage her. I have never said we make her. She does as she chooses and of course there are times when she doesn't. It is up to her. She has realised she likes having her savings grow and she now evaluates how she spends her money and acknowledges that if she blows a lot one week, the next week she can start again if she wishes. The whole point of it, is to gently get her used to budgeting and appreciating that everything costs.

It sounds like she is very sensible then and doesn't really need lessons on budgeting and appreciating that everything costs. I would leave to it initially anyway.

yellowallpaper · 24/01/2020 10:33

Unless I was seriously strapped for cash I wouldn't ask my young child for money. I'd encourage them to save and say I'd keep the money safe for them, otherwise no.

Ishotmrburns · 24/01/2020 22:36

I never paid my parents any money for rent when I was earning and it certainly hasn't made me not understand that you need you pay your way. For most people it's a bit obvious and doesn't require lessons

I'm not sure it is. An awful lot of people struggle with budgeting and finances when they are young adults, and for some it continues into later adulthood.

Floralnomad · 24/01/2020 23:55

A lot of people struggle with budgeting because they haven’t had it instilled in them from a young age that if you want a new phone / tv /games console etc that you have to save money to buy it . Sadly we now live in a society where most people just stick things on a card when they want it irrespective of whether it’s affordable . Charging your children rent / keep wont change those attitudes. Likewise taking money from your children and saving it for them also doesn’t teach them anything , they need to be doing the saving for themselves .

Bluerussian · 25/01/2020 01:33

OP, I'm sorry you feel people are having a go at you; I certainly didn't intend to. We all have different experiences when it comes to children paying their way or not.

However at the end of the day it really is up to you what you decide to do. As long as your daughter is happy with whatever arrangement you make, it should be OK. I'm sure if you do charge her a bit, you'll put some aside for her to use when she does move out.

I would say £20 a week is fairer than £25, particularly if, as you say, she is saving for a car.

Don't disappear.