Paying Keep

[Lee17]

Hi All,
My 16 yr old daughter has left school is earning now. She is on an Apprenticeship, which starts officially in September. She is earning about £130 a week at the minute, which may well go up if she does more hours. Now, I think it is reasonable for her to pay a little towards her keep. At the moment we are encouraging her to save half, which she is doing but when we mentioned keep she threw a wobbly. Is it reasonable to ask her to pay say £25 a week, then save half of the rest and have the other half to spend as she pleases? My husband and I were brought up to pay keep, many, many years ago! And back then in the early 80s, he was paying about £20 and I was about £15. Any advice please? I think they need to appreciate how long it takes to earn what they intend to spend and to evaluate the cost and if it is worth it. We pay for everything for her at the minute, apart from extra clothes and makeup. Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Keep or no Keep?

So, the point that is being made repeatedly is that we didn't have keep off of our other daughter. But our other daughter wasn't earning £130 a week at 16, and as is being pointed out, because she was in full time education
And your youngest daughter is in full time training.
They have to be in full time education or training to 18.
One daughter chose a levels
The other chose an apprenticeship
Both are post 16 education and training.

You're just choosing to consider your 16 year old 's apprenticeship as a full time job to try and justify taking money from a child

I honestly dont know how we've ended up in a society were a child "needs" over £100 to themselves a week? Im one of 5, we all paid keep as soon as we started earning and it just wasn't a big deal, it was completely normal, expected and didnt make me think for one minute my parents were "bad parents" more that when you want something you go and work for it- ypu get paid- you pay out your "expenses" and the rest is yours.
I have 4 kids, totally planning on charging them all keep as and when the time comes. If i dont actually need it, ill put it in thier savings account but i will teach them that in reality your income is never all your own.

She doesn’t have mouths to feed, bills to pay and a mortgage or rent (quite rightly at 16). The OP is covering all these including college expenses and a mobile phone. DD wage is purely spending money (less savings and board).

All these posters making disgusting comments about the OP need to stop. It’s not like the DD is sending her down the mines bare footed with only a mouldy piece of bread to eat. She’s just charging a small amount which probably doesn’t cover the DDs phone contract (and mobiles aren’t a necessity). Good heavens I wish I’d have had the equivalent of that salary after board when I was 16.

Exactly sarahjaneg. There’s some ridiculous comments on here.

Ask for 20%. Show her what your household bills/costs are per month. We did this when eldest dd started working after college (we supported her for 3 years). There was a grumble before I sat down with her & wrote down EVERYTHING we paid for. She realised we weren't being mean & what she ate probably cost more than we were asking for. And I was ferrying her to and from work for 3 months until she passed her driving test (I work part time). Again, a whinge as I asked for £25 per week towards fuel (it was costing me far more). When she was driving herself (in the car we bought her) & she was spending £50 per week on fuel, she again realised I wasn't being unreasonable. She now has her own home & is managing her finances well. Sheis glad we made her financially responsible

OP, I agree it’s not about your other daughter and what she earned or didn’t earn or how she was treated.

I think you’ve got everything utterly confused in this. At the end of the day, what is the point in her paying you keep? (I hate that phrase as well). Is it to be financially responsible for something? Part of growing up? What is it?

Because instead you’ve got her paying you £20 a week for her meals, packed lunches, phone contract, everything she needs. And if you’re as hard up as you made out in your previous posts, surely it would have been better for you to not charge her any money but take financial responsibility for everything else - and saving you money in the long term.

You’ve basically muddled it all up and told her to save her money (and I understand she’s saving for a car, but what then when she’s bought one? Are you going to order to save again?) and pay money to live in her home at 16, but then you’re babying her by paying her phone bill and doing all of the laundry and housework and food things. It’s a mess and all this teaches her is that for £20 a week you can have everything on a plate.

And for what it’s worth, apprenticeship salaries are disgustingly low, she will be working 40 hour weeks for that pittance. I wouldn’t take a penny from her until she’s earning an actual minimum wage or higher salary.

Barbarella1
She's being paid £3.90 an hour for the working hours to complete her training.

I'd also have loved that money at 16, but I chose A levels, university and that route to a professional job. That route didn't come with working 30 hours a week to tick off various competencies for £2 an hour (which was the rate at the time).

She's 16 years old and still in full-time training.

There seems to be two extreme camps that are quite vocal on MN:
One seems to think that it's entirely reasonable to expect parents to have a spare bedroom for their 33 year old child so they can turn up unannounced. Failure to allow your adult children to behave like overgrown teens is awful and immoral.
The other seems to take the view that once a child is 16 they're basically an adult and should totally be standing on their own two feet and parental responsibility ends there. Anyone suggesting a 17 year old is a child is obviously breeding someone who will be selfish and pampered.

I honestly don't know what to think but I feel nobody should give the op a hard time whatever she decides.

The girl is surely not costing any more to keep than when she was at school; my feeling is if we manag to support them at school, why not for a while afterwards. At least she can buy her own clothes and bits and pieces she wants out of her apprenticeship allowance so she is cheaper to run than before.

If the OP did what you suggested TheTruth AboutLove the DD probably wouldn’t have any salary left at all. She certainly wouldn’t have any savings. I’ll help you with the term keep. It means paying an amount towards household expenses.

Not supporting my child? WHAT are you on about? We pay her travel expenses, her kit, her food, her phone, her X Box, basic clothes..... And she still has at least £40 a week to spend exactly as she likes. I am flabbergasted. Obviously, you GreytExpectations, resulting in disgusting language is your form of defence. Poor show. Like to know how many hours you go out to work a week to pay a mortgage, keep the house running, run a car, pay everything that is needed to keep our heads above water if you think having a little bit of money to help is outrageous. How DARE you say I am a bad parent. For a start, I don't use foul language to put my point across. Secondly, 16 is not a 'child' in as much as she is working, can be sexually active, can go where she likes etc. She is a young woman, whom I am very proud of. How proud are your kids of you using language like that. Laughable.

Thankyou sarahjaneg.

Thankyou Barbarella1. I am beginning to think that some people have so much money, or so little bills to pay etc, that their concept of a wage hard-earned by all of us, is unfamiliar to them and that the true value of money, its value, how it is earned, is lost on them. I am flabbergasted tbh.

Child benefit doesn't get paid to parents whose children are doing an apprenticeship. My dd 17 has started one and it isn't payable as the child is earning a wage albeit a small one

@Barbarella1 I know what the term keep means. I just don’t like the phrase as we aren’t in 1956.

I wanted to know why the OP wanted to charge her daughter this money. That was literally it as all of the reasoning I’ve read so far makes no sense whatsoever. It’s not a criticism, I’m just struggling to understand.

I started an apprenticeship when I was 16, when I got my first pay packet my dad said 'enjoy this one, because as of next month you'll be paying me 50% of everything you earn for your keep' and he did.

A lot of mates said I'd get it back once I moved out and they were probably saving it for me. Pft, never saw a penny I don't think it's a bad thing tbh as it does teach you about how to manage money (plus I left home as soon as I could)

Op my DS is also 16 doing an apprenticeship and pays keep, life isn't free! I paid it to my DPs when I did an apprenticeship too

I agree with TheTruth.

It seems odd to demand rent but then pay for phone and xbox and clothes. I would just agree to continue covering all her basic needs, including food, but say that now that she's earning a proper wage, all luxuries should be paid for by her.

My parents didn't charge me keep until I had completed my apprenticeship and was working full time. They saved money themselves because I was earning and they didn't need to spend anything on me. Its such a small salary I wouldn't want to ask for any, it's more important to save imo

I dont agree with taking money from a 16 year old’s low apprenticeship wage.

I do think you should be teaching her budgeting with it. Actually you should be doing that from as soon as they start receiving money.

A 16 year old is a child. Not an adult.

Do you know what; I think we have got it just right, on reflection.
Our daughter is working, learning and carving out a profession for herself and her future. She has the safety net of a caring, supporting and unified mum and dad. We are always there for her, but letting her 'fly', make decisions, have the freedom she needs. She is being taught to value her hard work and the money she earns because of it. She is appreciating that in life, things aren't handed to you on a plate, and that saving will reward you and enable you to have some of the things you strive to have which in turn will ensure she knows the meaning of hard work. She is learning that she can't have spend, spend, spend with reckless abandon. She will feel empowered because of having the means to buy what she wants because of the decisions she had made and she is learning to manage her money, prioritise what she spends on, and learning to budget and on top of this she is turning out to be a lovely young lady, with principles, values, morals and a future to look forward to and strive for. We have a lovely relationship, she is happy and she feels she is contributing to the family dynamics. Not a day goes by where we don't tell each other we love each other. We have an amazing openness where no subject is taboo. Thankyou for all of your comments, whether I agree with them or not. My initial question wasn't about what I do as a parent, although some of you have targeted this. It was about teaching my daughter the true value of working and money. Building a mental foundation for herself, so she can prepare herself for the future in a tiny way. This has been an experience and a half. Myself, I have learnt that there are some pretty nasty people out there with spare verbal daggers to throw. But mostly nice people with really good objective helpful opinions.

Bluerussian
That's how I feel. She's a child who has just left school, like her sibling she is in full time education or training and should be treated as such.
If money is tight then I'd be scaling back other treats that are paid for by Mum and she can get them out if her apprentice wage if she still wants them. I'd not be asking a 16 year old child to be paying board towards the house.

I am beginning to think that some people have so much money, or so little bills to pay etc, that their concept of a wage hard-earned by all of us, is unfamiliar to them and that the true value of money, its value, how it is earned, is lost on them. I am flabbergasted tbh
Far from it. Some of us simply don't believe in charging a child under 18 to live at home when they have to be in full time education or training.
Obviously there's a range of opinions on this thread, as there is on any thread, but trying to group everyone who disagrees with your idea that she's a working adult as rich moneybags who don't know the value of money is ridiculous.

Keep. From full time working (17) I had to pay 1/3 for keep.

This, OP, is what I don’t get how you’re doing

It was about teaching my daughter the true value of working and money

How are you teaching her that? She’s 16, and you have told her to save half and also give you £20 a week as you, as you put it, are hard up and this is a contribution to your family pot.

If you wanted to create financial independence for her and the value of money - why didn’t you instead get her to pay her £18p/m phone contract? And she can actively see where her money goes.

You’re still treating her like a child, in terms of laundry, food, paying for Xbox and clothes and toiletries and driving lessons - yet you think this £20 a week is a magical lesson to her and I don’t see how in the slightest? You’re babying her by still doing everything for her and I maintain she’s going to have a skewed view that she’s had everything for £20 a week.

16 is such a young age, no way should she be charged a penny until she’s qualified and on a proper salary.

No amount of you telling us all how your plan worked perfectly and your family is amazing blah blah will dissuade me, you’ve totally contradicted yourself several times in the purpose of charging her so it makes zero sense.

I used to pay 1/3 towards my keep but it wasn't an apprenticeship. I think it's a bit hard to say she has to save 1\2 and pay rent on such rubbish wages. Personally I'd charge rent but let her spend the rest as she liked.

Op, did you just come here thinking everyone would agree with you, and you’re now in the huff that we don’t?

Ultimately, I don’t think that doing any of this makes you a bad parent, and I appreciate you are trying to make ends meet etc, but honestly, I think you sound a bit overbearing and unfair to your daughter.

I’d do one or the other;
A) accept digs (20-30) and back off from how she spends the rest
B) take a percentage (say 40%) and then save it aside for her.

I think insisting on digs and then insisting she saves half the rest is really overkill