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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People who have never experienced being in family court

999 replies

SavanahXx · 02/08/2019 23:40

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

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auntethel · 06/08/2019 10:34

They want to really wind you up Savanah, so your thread gets taken down. I've been doing this years on MN, trying to raise awareness of the family courts. Usually the minions win and threads are removed. They don't like it when people get their experiences across, that's why it says post 00.14. I am shocked this thread is still standing. I managed to get my last one to 1,000 posts. Wink Keep going, you are raising awareness.

GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 06/08/2019 10:36

I'm really struggling to believe this. No social worker can prevent parents from bringing an appeal in the tribunal.

For my friend, they told her that she could have yearly letterbox contact with her DD. However, if she appealed, they would stop all contact completely.

She agreed to drop the case at which point the guardian ad litem rushed around to the DD’a foster home delightedly announcing “Your mother has given you up!”. Sadly, the DD has grown up believing this to be the case when it is not actually true.

SavanahXx · 06/08/2019 10:38

@auntethel I will never give up the fight for all those parents who have experienced corrupt social workers. I will speak for the ones who are too scared to speak out for themselves 🙌🙏

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auntethel · 06/08/2019 10:49

Isatis here's the verbatim from Court from SEN solicitor who was sent by Director of IPSEA, John Wright. "I repeatedly tried to explain to the court that this case should not be here. It is a case for SEN Tribunal, but this fell on deaf ears." John Wright (since retired) thought they were bluffing because ds had SEN Statement for autism specific special school. It is a legal document. Our case set a precedent at IPSEA. As for hidden reports, they requested reports from all other agencies as per procedure. When our solicitor requested copies he was told in writing "there are no reports". Still have the letters. We finally got the reports through the complaints system at the end of court proceedings and the print out date on them was the beginning of hearing. They'd held onto them for at least 8 months.

GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 06/08/2019 11:01

We finally got the reports through the complaints system at the end of court proceedings and the print out date on them was the beginning of hearing. They'd held onto them for at least 8 months.

They will only allow the documents that support their case. Anything that supports the parents will not be presented. Family Courts proceedings are similar to criminal proceedings, in that they will only present evidence that supports their case.

In my friend's case, her DD's headmistress was contacted to be an expert witness. She told SS that DFriend was an excellent mother and they had absolutely no concerns about her parenting. The head was keen to give evidence to support my DFriend. SS told her that her evidence would no longer be required.

auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:02

GirlRaised same here. Guardian kept telling ds his parents had given up on him. You can imagine the meltdowns (with autism) at the foster cares from that, can't you? Foster carers must have been absolutely dedicated. Well, they were, they loved him. Thank god for those carers, I'll never forget them.

Nicknacky · 06/08/2019 11:03

Criminal proceedings do not only present evidence that “supports” the case, exculpatory evidence is routinely introduced during proceedings. The prosecution will understandably present evidence that supports theirs and the defence likewise.

auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:07

X posted there Girl I was talking about the Guardian. Yes to SS not wanting any positives. When we finally got the withheld reports, they were not only positive, they were praising our parenting. When I saw them, I just cried. We'd been put down so much by SS, we had felt like different people.

TwoPupsandaHamster · 06/08/2019 11:18

For anyone watching and is still interested in this nonsense...

For any hearing within the Family Court SS will have a solicitor, who will instruct relevant professionals to undertake various assessments and reports on the parents.

The parents will have a solicitor who will instruct professionals to undertake various assessments and reports on the parents

The child will have a solicitor via his/her GAL who will instruct professionals to undertake various assessments and reports on the child

All these reports are shared between all solicitors and presented at Court. All writers of the reports will be called to give evidence.

So far we've had the following people to "strengthen" OP and her sidekicks cases

Bob Geldof
Katie Price
Ian Josephs

Wait a few mins and we will be subjected the mad ramblings of John Hemming 😂

auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:25

Girlraised heartfelt sympathy to your friend. Flowers I hope she will be alright. The whole horrendous experience has affected all of us. DC are now adults. DS can't write because they put him a school that couldn't manage his needs. He can only sort of scribble his name. He has a fear of SS and all the staff at his supported living are ex SS. He's gradually learning to trust them but it's a work in progress. DD has mental ill-health, DH had depression but is ok now and I have ptsd. Would your friend feel up to coming on here and telling her story?

auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:32

At one point the foster agency requested therapy for DS. SW refused on the grounds "due to court directed work" We told the Guardian there is no court directed work that prevents therapy, he ignored us. Fortunately, DS still had his regular psych which foster carers took him to.

SavanahXx · 06/08/2019 11:32

@TwoPupsandaHamster I think you're missing the video involving a social worker :).

OP posts:
auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:37

IPSEA were shocked, they had never come across it before that's why they provide us with their own SEN solicitor. But she couldn't win, there were too many lies. The sen statement was a legal document, meant fuck all in the kangaroo court.

auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:40

Savanah that's Carol. They just say she has mental illness!!! That's one of their favourite allegations Grin

TwoPupsandaHamster · 06/08/2019 11:44

I don't need to watch videos about SS. I've worked with them for years. Some fantastic SW's. Some a bit dodgy.

Fact remains that all reports handed in to Court will come from at least 3 solicitors, including the solicitor acting for the parents.

At the end of the day if SS have not raised concerns 're parenting look after your own child. Make decisions for your own child and stop palming them off on some one else to deal with. That way you can take responsibility for your own decisions instead of going all out to blame anybody and everybody else!

auntethel · 06/08/2019 11:55

DD and DS were kept apart for a year! The psych was informing SS and the court it was essential that contact be made. Again, we have it in writing that this was refused because "work needed to be done with each child before contact." The work was never done and contact was resumed without it. At the same time DD was trying to settle into new grammar school, whilst she was heartbroken at never seeing her brother. How she managed to get through it all and get to Uni, I'll never know. Proud of her Grin

Borisdaspide · 06/08/2019 12:03

SS buried the police forensic's evidence and it was not presented to the court.

But they had it after, so they could easily have appealed to the Court, and then we could all read the appeal decision, right?

swanfacade · 06/08/2019 12:10

Social workers have an incredibly difficult job to do but as with every profession, there are of course, going to be horrible, power hungry, manipulative bastards amongst the staff. Never had an abusive, shouty manager? How about a sly bitch in the office that someone gets everyone to exclude you from everything? Or the colleague who is a completely creepy letch? Or worst of all, the ambitious shitbag who wants your job and will shamelessly make up lies about you to get you out? Most mumsnetters will have worked with some shitty people at some stage in their lives and sadly, this does include some of the more responsible or caring professions such as social workers , doctors and nurses, teachers, police, etc... Remember that thread a while back about the jobs of psychopaths? I was shocked at how many headteachers were mentioned!

So it stands to reason that there will be some arseholes working as Social Workers too. Many SW's will be decent human beings. But it's the kind of job where a) they see some really sad shit every day - it'd be impossible not to be affected long term and b) it's their neck on the line if they DON'T react and a child is hurt, so possibly they overstep just in case.

With that said, I'm still angry with the rude, hostile, threatening cow who called me two days after being beaten up by my ex-partner. I had left this man 4 years previously and only really had contact with him due to the kids whilst he spiralled down into drug abuse. He very unexpectedly beat me up completely unprovoked on a random weekday morning after knocking on my door unannounced, the night after a drug binge. Thankfully all the kids were at school when this happened (which was verified) and he had never laid a finger on me before that day, so it was quite a shock. I immediately called the police and had him arrested where he was cautioned for ABH and assault and battery. I also stopped the kids from seeing him (he has since regained supervised visitation) and tried to set the ball rolling for a non-molestation order. And was referred to victim support for counselling by the police. I also set up family counselling. All this within the first 2 days. I was not messing about.

However, 2 days after it took place, I received a phone call from social services. I was sitting at work with a black eye and a cut on my head whilst she asked me questions and I told her the truth. She was desperately trying to bait me into reacting (which I wouldn't) and was saying things like; "I know he's done this to you a million times before hasn't he?" (He hadn't) "He abuses the children too doesn't he?!" (Nope) "You never really left him did you?!" (I had left him 4 years prior and had moved house three times since)! Then she started getting really nasty and personal;

"I think you're a pathetic woman who doesn't protect her children properly because she is so desperate to keep her man (wtf?!) and you're just going let him keep abusing you all aren't you? I don't think your kids are safe with you and you need watching. You LET this happen."

Somehow, I still kept my cool but I did firm up a bit and told her the following:

"I think you must be talking about someone else as the case you're referring to doesn't seem to be mine. I left this man years ago BECAUSE I felt he was becoming emotionally abusive and starting to take hard drugs. Didn't want my kids to live with that. I did the right thing back then and have never lived with him since, even though it was hard. He never laid a hand on me until two days ago and his attack was almost as random and unexpected as if a stranger in the street did it. Only he knows why he suddenly turned because I don't. Since then, I've had him arrested and looked at legal measures to keep him away from us and told the kids school that there had been an incident with their dad and although they thankfully didn't witness it, they might be fragile as they were probably not going to see him for a while. I've also had to have a talk with them about this, which was hard and booked counselling for all of us and still had to go into work with a messed up face. Amongst all the cooking and cleaning and driving I usually have to do. Please tell me what more I could have done in such a short space of time and also why you're so sure it's my fault even though I'm the actual victim here?!"

She actually backed off after that (not that she apologised of course). She said the children's schools would be informed by SS also but if I pressed on with the non-molestation order then that would be the end of it. The onus was on me to prove that I was doing what I could to keep the kids safe (as I suppose it should have been). But as someone that had already been trying to keep them safe in the years beforehand and could never have predicted my ex's unprovoked attack, I really took umbrage to this woman's accusations of the opposite. I can't believe I stayed calm throughout that call. (I did go into the toilets for a little cry afterwards though - there I was shaken up and very sore and apparently I was also a bad mother and it was my fault this had happened?! Talk about kicking someone when they're down)! I think though, that had I not stayed calm and started shouting back at her, she quite possibly would have been vindictive enough to go after me and have my kids off of me. They sometimes needle and degrade vulnerable people who have been abused and might be at snapping point. And then when the victim loses control they use that against them. Some of them do lie.

I get that they see these situations all the time, where mothers stay with abusive partners and let their kids witness all kinds of shit. So SW's don't always have time to play nice, as it were. I do understand that. But there was absolutely NO NEED for that woman's nasty behaviour. This was NOT one of those cases. It went beyond what she was supposed to have been doing. If she had the case notes from the police in front of her then she would have seen that clearly and was just being a nasty bitch on a power trip. If she DIDN'T have the case notes from the police, then surely she should have got herself informed and up to speed before phoning me?! When you're needlessly hostile to parents doing their best then it's only going to create more suspicion of Social Workers in my opinion. It still rankles to this day.

auntethel · 06/08/2019 12:11

On the last thread I did on this subject, a SW admitted that she copied and pasted in court reports. This was because I'd seen a number of other parents reports that were almost identical to ours, including the fictitious "long term mental ill-health" and "drug and alcohol abuse." As if we could manage to care for a disabled child and put dd through 11plus and then grammar school, have them at full attendance, clean and presentable, whilst on drink and drugs? Absolute idiocy!

GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 06/08/2019 12:30

But they had it after, so they could easily have appealed to the Court, and then we could all read the appeal decision, right?

Nope. You can only appeal on certain grounds and SS burying evidence is not grounds for Appeal.

auntethel · 06/08/2019 12:36

Girl and they don't admit they're burying evidence. They claim they only just received it or it got "lost"

auntethel · 06/08/2019 12:38

I wonder if Katie Price's kids will be refused contact with their DB?

Borisdaspide · 06/08/2019 12:40

SS burying evidence is not grounds for Appeal.

Of course it is, particularly a police report that completely exonerates you.

GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 06/08/2019 12:49

@Borisdaspide, even if you could appeal, it would take years. In the meantime, as was the case with my friend, SS will stop contact. The only way she was allowed contact with her DD was if she agreed to accept the judgement.

auntethel · 06/08/2019 12:49

swanfacade I think you got a taste there of what it's like. Imagine that, month in month out? Sorry your ex did that and thank goodness the dc were out! Flowers

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