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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People who have never experienced being in family court

999 replies

SavanahXx · 02/08/2019 23:40

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

OP posts:
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SavanahXx · 05/08/2019 00:19

@jellycatspyjamas I guess Scotland is different to the UK. If social workers here give parents a fair chance to defend themselves, maybe people would be as angry. But they don't.

@auntethel that disgusting. SWers should be listening to the other services who are experts in them fields. Not thinking they know better when they clearly have no expert knowledge in them fields

OP posts:
jellycatspyjamas · 05/08/2019 00:19

Anyone know why NSPCC could do nothing when I provided documented evidence that DS was placed at risk by SW?
Because contrary to all their publicity, the nspcc don’t investigate child protection concerns. They campaign about child protection, they provide some recovery services but they don’t actively undertake safeguarding investigations. All they do is pass back to the local authority to investigate.

SavanahXx · 05/08/2019 00:25

@auntethel I think I'm about to do the same. I won't get better till I rest. You don't have to thank me for the thread. I should be thanking you. You genuinely seem so strong and amazing 🙌 goodnight x

@jellycatspyjamas I've complained. To the council. And the social workers managers. The managers don't seem too interested though. Probably because it makes them look bad because the social workers actions are instructed by their managers

OP posts:
jellycatspyjamas · 05/08/2019 00:29

. She said he shouldn't of been kept from the birth. But an apology doesn't really give it back to us -.- I had 2 MMC before DD so as you can imagine, it was a huge deal to give birth to her and for us not to do it as a family.
Yep I can completely see why it would matter all the more, and there surely would have been a way to allow him to support you while keeping baby safe, if that was their concern.

It sounds like you had someone who was so caught up in process they lost sight of their own humanity - it can happen mostly as a defence to some of the things we see day in and day out, but it’s so important to remember there are actual people at the end of whatever process you’re going through. You can’t have that time back, but you can move forward with your family and make a good life for yourself. I wish you only good things.

auntethel · 05/08/2019 00:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

auntethel · 05/08/2019 00:35

Phew, that was cathartic. Think I will sleep like a log now Smile Night Savanah and thanks to posters who have answered my questions.

TwoPupsandaHamster · 05/08/2019 00:48

Auntethel In the first instance you should lodge your complaint with the manager of the SW involved, giving them 10 days to reply. Once you have received a reply you can forward it to your Local Ombudsman who will arrange to have the complaint investigated independently.

I did this as I did not agree with the recommendations of one particular SW. She recommended that a child I had as a Foster placement, for 3 years, should not be returned to parents. I assessed the majority of contact sessions between child and parents and grandparents at my home, parents home, contact centre and out and about in town/parks/swimming etc The contact supervisor, who also did some assessments with the family had no concerns. I also had no concerns re parenting and ability to keep the child safe. The original SW was happy with the way the parents were growing in confidence with their parenting and there was a strong bond between parents and child.

Unfortunately the original SW went off on long term sick leave and a new SW was allocated. The parents questioned new SW at some point and there was a falling out between SW and parents. SW then recommended the child be placed for adoption rather than go home.

I made a complaint to manager and then the Ombudsman. My case was upheld. The child went to live with his grandparents, temporarily (even though they failed the first assessment) whilst the parents underwent further assessments. I quit fostering at that point and lost touch with the parents. I hope the family are now reunited.

TwoPupsandaHamster · 05/08/2019 00:49

Ah. Sorry Ethel. Just seen you have already complained to the Ombudsman. I don't know what else to suggest. Sorry

Spingtrolls · 05/08/2019 01:57

Over the past 30 years, I had, unfortunately, had lots of interaction with SS. Some have been extremely helpful, others have been utter bastards.
One was immediately take off my case when she berated me wrongfully at child protection meeting. She had only skimmed the case and told me that she would ensure I would lose my children, that I was a nasty mother who didn't deserve them, etc. That I was lying about my child and everything was my fault - there were lots of statements from an array of professionals who had witnessed first hand what my child was capable of. The only reason we were at CP stage was to get fast-tracked to other services, before that we were on children in need with a minimum of 2 years waiting lists. It's something we all discussed to get around waiting lists quicker. It was emphasized on the case this was the reason.

I personally experienced the systematic coverup of abuse by SS in a London borough. Even after media attention they still denied and tried covering up. They also fired whistleblowers before and after media attention and discredited their names. The same borough sent me home to an abusive house, who ignored another time that I was homeless with physical marks, and less than 3 months later police had to kick in the door. Finally made it into care and until that SS manager left everything was being done to return me home to known abusers and criminals.

Then there was the one that had split with his partner and she had custody of the children he told me this. Some of his complaints in the file - included cooking dinner late (6 pm when I finished work), my children were inadequately housed because my dd's shared a room (not years apart in age either, less than 2 years). Dc still in pj's - surprise visit in school holidays at 8 am and they seemed tired. I could on, and I raised a lot of complaints.

Accused of abuse and neglect after an electrical house fire that destroyed everything. Police and firefighters were fantastic and put in an emergency housing request to SS. They also mentioned that clothes etc would be needed as we lost everything. SW took this to mean I had none of these things and I was threatened with losing my dc. After I read the emergency services request, they had mentioned lose as a result of fire, and when I contacted them they contacted SS to explain that we needed things because of the fire, they could see from damage children had everything. Same SW also laid into me verbally because I didn't have jars of baby food, seemed outside their own beliefs that I gave 10-month-old food I cooked. 3 months later case dropped, no help offered to replace stuff. Instead, I thankfully had good friends and contacts who gave me loads of stuff.

I could go on and one about the bad. From my experience, I found that once you have been under them even as a minor, once your name pops back up they pounce. You know because being in care absolutely means you will abuse your children and be an addict and various other generalisations.

Nice ones have realised that reports were malicious and came from either my first ex or one of my childhood abusers. Did their quick report, and quickly closed the case. When needed because I have gone myself as an adult the good ones have helped.

But even with the good ones, I am shit scared that if involved again I will lose my youngest. Not because I deserve it but because I don't know if I have enough left at the moment to fight the nasty ones. When I was going through it with my eldest, the strain nearly made me quit and hand him over. The goals constantly being raised with ridiculous deadlines to sort things and someone skip long waiting lists in the space of weeks.

When I was in care one or two couldn't understand why they were there. Another one was dragged kicking and screaming from the home back to the abusers. That is something that will haunt me forever. Never mind some of the abuse that happened with children's homes.

The system needs an overall. Has done for the past 30 years. The good ones are amazing, but more attention needs to be on the bad ones. Conflicting reports are very dangerous and once someone makes a complaint the whole case should be scrutinised, not just the reports from SW. Although this could have changed not had personal involvement in recent years. When I have read reports it was staggering the number of contradictions I found from the bad ones.

I get that its a stressful job. The emotional strain involved in seeing the worst of the worst. I have huge respect for the good ones. But like any other work enivironment, there are ones that do give it a bad name. To think that these bad ones don't exist is dangerous.

I am not saying that there isn't a need for a system in place because some parents are also nasty cruel bastards. And this will deny everything and at times will lay blame on the children.

twattymctwatterson · 05/08/2019 02:44

I can't even engage with the level of stupidity coming from this op.

Lolyora17 · 05/08/2019 02:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

auntethel · 05/08/2019 05:37

I can't even engage with the level of stupidity coming from this op. So you've come on the thread to tell people you're not coming on the thread? Is that a passive aggressive flounce?

SavanahXx · 05/08/2019 07:18

@twattymctwatterson and whys that? Because I don't have the same view as everyone else? Goodbye then 👋👋👋

OP posts:
TacoLover · 05/08/2019 10:12

What benefit do they get from a new handbag for yourself? Or the latest car. Or garden furniture that they may never use? I'd rather take them out

🙄

The whole point is that it doesn't HAVE to benefit the child, the allowance is not given to all the spent on the child it's given as payment for childcare. Just because you have a child it doesn't mean you have to spend your entire wage on them. That's fine if you want to do that(and will probably end up with a spoilt child if you give them everything they want, all the time) but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to martyr ourselves.

God forbid a mum buys herself a handbag🙄 do mothers never deserve treats, ever? No dinners out with your friends, ever? No buying a rated 15 film for yourself to watch, ever? No buying a museum ticket to go when your child is at school, ever? Never buying some makeup, some fancy chocolates, just anything that makes you happy ever? Sounds like a shit life.

TacoLover · 05/08/2019 10:17

the allowance is not given to all the spent on the child

Sorry this should say

The allowance is not given to all be spent on the child

picklemepopcorn · 05/08/2019 11:01

@TwoPupsandaHamster
You tagged me earlier about my post saying outcomes for CYPIC are bad? It was a tag on to my previous comment, not a criticism. I was a foster carer, and know that children are better off in 'less than ideal' families than in foster families because of the trauma of separation piled on to the already less than ideal circumstances. Trying to find the perfect tipping point at which it's necessary to move a child is almost impossible, I reckon.

I've had crap experiences with SWs over the years, and will never work for them again.

However, I don't think it's malice- it's laziness/exhaustion, mistakes, inability to cope with the pressure. I think SWs should get compulsory therapy sessions, to help them with compassion fatigue! I imagine all the previous experiences of families who cheat and lie to SS must pile up and leave SWs very jaundiced.

I can't imagine having the likes of Baby P on my conscience, which is what happens when intervention is insufficiently rigorous and social workers are too trusting.

picklemepopcorn · 05/08/2019 11:01

@TwoPupsandaHamster
You tagged me earlier about my post saying outcomes for CYPIC are bad? It was a tag on to my previous comment, not a criticism. I was a foster carer, and know that children are better off in 'less than ideal' families than in foster families because of the trauma of separation piled on to the already less than ideal circumstances. Trying to find the perfect tipping point at which it's necessary to move a child is almost impossible, I reckon.

I've had crap experiences with SWs over the years, and will never work for them again.

However, I don't think it's malice- it's laziness/exhaustion, mistakes, inability to cope with the pressure. I think SWs should get compulsory therapy sessions, to help them with compassion fatigue! I imagine all the previous experiences of families who cheat and lie to SS must pile up and leave SWs very jaundiced.

I can't imagine having the likes of Baby P on my conscience, which is what happens when intervention is insufficiently rigorous and social workers are too trusting.

auntethel · 05/08/2019 13:31

However, I don't think it's malice - it's laziness/exhaustion, mistakes, inability to cope with the pressure More excuses for the abuse of my DS.

auntethel · 05/08/2019 13:33

By the way, the AIMS report was before Baby P.

TwoPupsandaHamster · 05/08/2019 13:42

Picklemepopcorn apologies 💐
It was your post I picked it up from. I can see now that you weren't the one who posted it originally.

It's hard work dealing with damaged children, especially when you are not given the full facts of their history. It's even harder dealing with inept SW's. You are right, of course, SW's are under a great deal of stress. They get fired at from all directions. I've worked with some brilliant, sensible, child focussed, dedicated SW's. I've also sat back and wondered about others. Problem is the fantastic SW's snap under the stress and their case load is taken over by newly qualified SW's who think they know it all. Very often their cases are not taken over and the children languish within the care system. It's very frustrating for everybody.

Foster Carers also have to deal with unreasonable demands and criticism from birth parents. As do SW's. They are very quick to blame anyone and everyone for their failings. It's never their fault, oh no!

But, hey, Foster Carers should do all this from the goodness of their own little heart with no monetary recompense. People like the OP have no idea how foster carers go above and beyond to support, and advocate for, children within their care.

After nearly 30 years of being a foster carer I could tell you some stories. But I won't.

Foster Carers and Social Workers are damned if they do and damned I they don't.

It would be worth OP's while to get on the Introduction to Foster Caring group. She may gain some basic insight. She wouldn't last the course, never mind become a Foster Carer. Out of 25 couples on my introduction course only 3 of us went on to actually become foster carers. Some people don't have a clue! Yet they are the ones who shout loudest 🙄

auntethel · 05/08/2019 15:12

No one seems surprised or shocked that DS's SW told foster carers that he had no special needs and that resulted in injuries to other children and DS running onto main road. No one seems shocked that SW told foster carers to double his medication after psych said he must come off it. The silence is very telling. At the time, silence from the authorities, MP and Government. Silence on here from workers within the system? And yet plenty of excuses for the abusive SW'S. Vulnerable kids in this country are fucked!!

auntethel · 05/08/2019 15:26

No one seems shocked that a young woman had to leave her newborn and attend court 10 hours after the birth. I couldn't have done that and I'm as tough as old boots. But no one on here bats an eyelid!! Again, very telling?

TwoPupsandaHamster · 05/08/2019 15:32

Auntethel. Nobody on here can tell you why a SW didn't acknowledge that your son had special needs or why the FC was told to double his meds. Seems strange tho if a psych diagnosed Special Needs but took him off all medication. That info will be held on your sons file. You have every right to access your sons file.

As far as whether your son should play out or not - this is a very common headache for foster carers. Some children's SW will see playing out as part of normal childhood, and encourage them to make friends, taking child's age, environment, friends, safety etc into consideration. Other SW 's refuse to permit a child to play out with his peer group. The child is then frustrated as all his mates are out playing and he is being left out of his friendship group. Guess who the child blames? Yep. The foster carer.

Nobody is making excuses for inept SW's. But most can see why mistakes happen and can empathise that every SW's caseload has different children with very different needs. Priority is always given to those most in need of intervention, as it should be.

It's pointless asking people on a SM site why his SW did what you say. The only person who is able to answer that is the SW. Access your sons care file and his medical file. What do you hope to gain from this historic info?

TwoPupsandaHamster · 05/08/2019 15:38

No one seems shocked that a young woman had to leave her newborn and attend court 10 hours after the birth. I couldn't have done that and I'm as tough as old boots. But no one on here bats an eyelid!! Again, very telling

That's probably because nobody has ever heard of that happening before. SS don't make a habit of leaving a new born without it's mother, unless in extreme circumstances.

Again only OP knows the story. Nobody can hazard a guess on scant information, and shouldn't be required to. No stranger on the internet will know the answer. Again it's pointless asking. Take it up with those who were there and will be able to answer. The answer will be in the baby/mothers care file.

auntethel · 05/08/2019 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.