People who have never experienced being in family court

[SavanahXx]

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

Sorry but yabu to take one example of poor practice and assume that everything is like that

One example that's actually been reported. Do you personally know anyone who's been lied about? Who's been in this situation?I know I myself have. And I know plenty of people who have too.

Are you referring to one old article or personal experience? I've had a malicious allegation made against me to SS by ex-P and thought they were excellent! Obvs not all SWs are amazing and mistakes and made, but I hope you're not basing your opinion on one mainstream media article

Articles like that always sway things in the parent's favour though.

They way they ridicule the court for allowing the child to be removed...."she wouldn't let him get his hair cut the way he liked"

Well that can be taken a number of ways.

1: He wanted a Mohawk: she would not allow it... GOOD parent
2: She wanted him to have long hair so refused him access to a hairdresser even though he cried about it....BAD parent

Same with the "She failed to take him out for icecream" Well she may have repeatedly let him down.

I know a woman with a son who dresses in boys and girls clothes. She says it's driven by him...but when he came here to play, he wanted to wear my husband's coat...his had daisies all over it. He's also got long hair which he hates.

Minor things you might think but could be part of a long list of neglect and failing to meet a child's needs.

Nobody knows the full details of the case you've linked to and the press leave out pertinent details all the time.

People make mistakes in all lines of work. People are wrongly accused of making mistakes in all lines of work.

The majority of social workers and professionals involved with cases like that one from last year act with integrity. Without insider knowledge, it's a hell of a leap to say those professionals involved in the first case were corrupt.

My own personal experiences and others I know.

I don't think it's just about siding with SS... firstly you have to know what got them involved with SS in the first place, why has it gone to court etc because not everyone involved with them goes to court. What made them think that child would be safer out of their care. I think there is a lot to factor in on both sides. If you ever get the whole truth from both sides is a different story.

I worked briefly for a solicitor who did care work. It was horrific reading the paperwork. There wasn't one case that I felt was unjustified. In fact social services are so stretched they tended to step in too late. The parents were given chance after chance. I left as soon as I could, it was affecting my home life toi much.

Sounds like a social worker with crap court report writing skills. Disappointed their managers let it get that far, not surprised that it did in an underfunded LA.

You can't base judgement on an entire profession on one case though. You could find examples of crap employees in all professions.

Feel free to train and apply to be a Children's services social worker if you think you can do a better job. They are crying out for people able to assess a family's needs through taking into account a combination of flimsy secondhand information, personal judgement, and virtually no money

There are alot of things they can take you to court for. False allegations and manipulated situations. It's so easy to have your child taken because a social worker thinks you could 'potentially' pose a risk. Why should a child, who's in a perfectly happy home and loved, be taken away from their family to be then placed with strangers? Whether the family get the child back or not, isn't that placing the child at risk of emotional harm? I think it is.

Unfortunately, some parents think that they are right and everyone else is wrong (superstitions which get in the way of a child getting necessary medical treatment; 'old-fashioned traditional discipline' ie hitting the child with a stick for bad behaviour, a parent with severely disordered eating feeding the child so badly that the child is malnourished, etc.) Such people will whine and cry and put up ranty blog posts about how the system is against them, when in fact they should not be allowed to be responsible for a clockwork mouse, let alone a child.

Do you honestly think that all social workers have malicious intent? Obviously what is reported in the media will be the cherry picked sensational or outrageous details but that never tells the whole story.

The vast majority of social workers are genuinely and deeply concerned for the best interests of the child, they spend hours of unpaid overtime trying to assess and meet the needs of too many children because caseloads are so high.

Yes some of them make mistakes, some are over zealous because the consequences of not being do can include being responsible for the next Victoria Climbe or Daniel Pelka, some are just lazy or prejudiced. But most are simply trying to protect children.

Also, sometimes it can be hard if not impossible to pin down concrete examples of poor parenting because each one in isolation looks inconsequential but when looked at together a picture forms of neglect. A good social worker may be going on gut instinct when pushing for a child to be removed, can you be sure that in 10 years time the Mother will be vindicated or will there be headlines about how social services missed their chance to intervene and help the kid?

I volunteer as a CASA (Court-Appointed Special Advocate). I've worked with quite a few families with children's services involvement. My experience has been that many of the parents can't see that they've done anything wrong, even when it's blatantly obvious to other people. They blame the social workers for losing their children, when in fact they've been given myriad opportunities to retain custody. Even when the children are removed, at least here, reunification is the primary goal. Sometimes to the detriment of the children, unfortunately.

When you are neglecting your child, that's a different story. What about the 'could place this child at risk of emotional harm'

Personally I've known several cases where the parents blamed SS for the loss of their children, despite it being very clear why they became involved and eventually took their children away.

I had a horrendous SS case. My parents are both retired senior social workers and they were very saddened.

I've been on many MN threads, where people have said they've had similar experiences. 3 posters on a thread this week.

I'm not slating SS or all SW'ers, but if you think that all cases go well/ things don't go wrong: SW'ers don't lie, falsify documents, have an agenda, then you are naïve.

I complained and took my case as far as I could. "Unprofessional", "systematic bullying" were some of my lawyers complaints. She complained that the welfare of the children hadn't been their primary focus.

You must all know that there are a few bad eggs, or people with their own agenda, tunnel vision, mistakes, deliberate and accidental, coverups etc, in many jobs: police, Senco, school counsellors, all sorts of professions.

To think otherwise is naive.

But the bar is quite high when it comes to removing a child - it's not like social workers sit there thinking "who's life can we ruin today?". They will have tried all other avenues first, given lots of time and feedback to parents, and often allowed them to remain in quite chaotic situations because the goal is to raise the risk of any harm, emotional or physical, and they recognise that the bond between parents and children is strong. If a child is removed it is a last resort. They don't have the resources to just take children on a whim. There are insufficient foster places available. It's just not logical.

It’s so easy to have your child taken because a social worker thinks you could ‘potentially’ pose a risk
It really isn’t . It’s never happened to me, or anyone I’ve ever known.
What put you on their radar to begin with, if it wasn’t some perceived risk to your child?

*reduce the risk, not raise it. Stupid autocorrect.

If the mistakes weren't covered up, or the lies were exposed rather than kept hidden, maybe people would see them for what alot of them can be.

The bar really isn't high for removal. Oh dear.

And I've already said. It could be a false allegation that puts you on their radar and if the allegation is worrying enough for them, you go straight to court and they get a removal order. Then a parent spends the next six months away from their child, proving the allegation was fake.

It's so easy to have your child taken because a social worker thinks you could 'potentially' pose a risk

No it isn’t. Stop scare mongering. It is a long process to remove children from their family, except in the most extreme cases where there is immediate and significant risk of harm, and often in those cases the removal is temporary.

Social services do a very good job in a pressurised environment - on balance, I'd far rather the got it wrong and removed a child, than got it wrong and let a child stay who later ends up dead.

You're given plenty of opportunity to engage with services before it gets to separation - those that can't, choose not to, or refuse to believe that there is a problem, usually are the problem.

I love how nieve the people of mumsnet are.

It really is. I have family experience of a child being removed. The parents were given chance after chance. Schedules were sellotaped to the wall by a social worker showing what needed to be done to care for the infant and at what time. Parenting classes were mandated. They overlooked drug abuse. The father was supported to liaise with DWP to remove his obligation to seek employment so that the mother was not left alone with the baby. SS were involved from before the birth of the baby and he was finally removed when he was 18 months old.