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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People who have never experienced being in family court

999 replies

SavanahXx · 02/08/2019 23:40

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

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clarissa469 · 03/08/2019 08:27

OP no one is getting aggravated here, you have made a statement and we're all entitled to disagree or agree with what you are saying, isn't that the point?

underneaththeash · 03/08/2019 08:30

OP - you’re very defensive too though. I don’t know if you’ve read the report that you linked earlier, but the judge said in it that the children WERE being neglected though the parents poor parenting. So even though the SW lied, there still major issues going on.

It’s my professional experience that SW do anything they can to keep families together too. I’n sorry that you’ve had a bad experience,

SugarPlumLairy2 · 03/08/2019 08:32

I wish my family HAD gone through family court. I was that kid who was battered and emotionally abused. It’s not as easy as you might think to get kids removed. People lieand cover up to SS then leat their kids were snatched for no reason whatsoever.

My DD was adopted. Her birth parents had a bunch of kids, one after another and was negligent to them all.. they made SS drag them through family court to try to prevent the adoptions. We know some of the siblings. We know the history,have discussed the behaviourstheyexperienced and it’s harrowing.
Withoutfail each child was neglected, malnourished and, where contact remained in place after adoption, horribly emotionally abused. Needless to say we didn’t keep up contact.

The birth mother was very vocal about how wrong SS were but it’s hard to argue with the evidence. Over many years and several kids.

I’m sure there ARE some wrong doings, but you are naive andoffensive to tar all SS with the same brush and then ridicule those who disagree with you.

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 08:32

No there doesn't need to be a pattern. I was called vulnerable for being abused and therefore could put my daughter at potential risk. Which is NOT true. They tried their hardest to try to say I could pose a risk. Luckily my judge seen through their mistakes. Purely because they didn't adhere to court orders and tried to use the stupidest lies. My child was placed in a foster placement. With myself. Which the judge said we shouldn't of even been in. He ordered them to move me. But they didn't want to! The didn't move me until the end of proceedings(the judge ordered they needed to move me near the beginning) so my daughter was in the care of the LA for 4 1/2 months more than she should of been. They also breached my human rights.

OP posts:
Cantmakeupmymind1 · 03/08/2019 08:35

On the subject of foster carers.....I hold a management position and was asked to provide a reference for one of my direct reports who wanted to become a foster carer. I was surprised to say the least as she had several children herself, moaned about them all the time and was incredibly lazy at work. So I called a meeting with her to discuss the reference, When I asked her why she wanted to become a foster carer she said because she hated working and it pays really well. She went on to tell me how much she could earn, how someone she knows is a foster carer and you have to feed the children but they buy cheap food and give them basic breakfast and a cheap ham sandwich for lunch etc etc. And you don't have to do much with the children just house them/feed them. I was horrified and I refused the reference.

SmileEachDay · 03/08/2019 08:35

SavanahXx

I’m so sorry that you were abused as a child and that you didn’t protected. It sounds as though you’ve had a very difficult time; I hope things are calmer and better for you now.

clarissa469 · 03/08/2019 08:38

OP I mean this with the greatest of respect, but it's like you're shocked at people disagreeing with you. You knew the penalty of posting this information on here and I know it's a hard pill to swallow but not everyone has to agree with you that you're right. What do you wish to take away from all of this?

Carthage · 03/08/2019 08:38

No child should be put through forced adoption

You've completely lost me now OP. Ridiculous statement.

clarissa469 · 03/08/2019 08:38

@SmileEachDay I totally agree, @SavanahXx no one ever deserves to be abused. Very sorry to hear it

OMGshefoundmeout · 03/08/2019 08:39

In my professional life I work with a lot of young people in care. Although they often moan and complain about their social workers, just like other young people might moan and complain about thier parents, the common thread is that they know the SW is doing their best for them and always has their best interests at heart, unlike many of their parents.

Of course SS don’t get it right all the time and some SW may even be absolute shit at their jobs but IME they are the exceptions.

Isatis · 03/08/2019 08:48

It's so easy to have your child taken because a social worker thinks you could 'potentially' pose a risk.

No, it really isn't easy. It's a very difficult process which nobody goes into lightly. And if they do, there are a lot of safeguards in place, including the availability of legal aid irrespective of means to ensure the parents have every opportunity to challenge the decision. Look at the case you cite, OP, where the child ended up back at home, for an example of the system working in parents' favour.

Why should a child, who's in a perfectly happy home and loved, be taken away from their family to be then placed with strangers?

Of course they shouldn't, but in what percentage of cases do you imagine that is what happens? Some of the worst abusers around will swear blind their child is loved and in a "perfectly happy home".

dray9925 · 03/08/2019 08:48

I know someone who was in care as a child she became involved when she was pregnant because she didn't have a conventional upbringing and I don't think there is anything wrong with attempting to support people who may struggle with parenting that's what they mean by potentially causing harm in the future, yes you have some bad social workers as you have bad people in any job
Sw closed my friends case before her son was even born and all has been really positive for her.

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 08:51

People are entitled to their own opinion. Again, its not like ive said they aren't. But im also entitled to mine.

OP posts:
Skyejuly · 03/08/2019 08:51

We had several facts wrong on the paperwork and complained about the worker.

HidingRealName · 03/08/2019 08:54

I've been involved in CP conferences in a non-SW capacity. There are problems in social care, mainly centred around funding and supervision/support of social workers and some apparently odd decisions around the choice of foster carers. Having said that, the majority of SWs do care about their caseloads. I met social workers who came in whilst on annual leave to attend CP conferences instead of sending a colleague as they were entitled to do. When they set a family on a better path, it must be satisfying. Then you get the families who can't or won't engage with social care for whatever reasons, drug, alcohol or behavioural issues. The children dying from genetic diseases which is no-one's fault, there is no possible remedy, but the family still need supporting. The hours of analysing reports after a day "on the road" visiting your current caseloads, to draw a complete picture of a situation, and often without adequate admin support as that's been cut due to austerity.

growingfrenchlavender · 03/08/2019 08:55

I don’t agree with the op personally on that matter carthage but she isn’t being ‘ridiculous.’

clarissa469 · 03/08/2019 08:58

@SavanahXx yes you're right you are. However you shouldn't be necessarily surprised/offended/ or shocked when people are disagreeing with you

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 09:01

No, what I'm surprised at is the people who haven't really had SS insolvent, who have never personally known about the bad ones, try and say that removal is easy, especially when a parent has done nothing wrong.

OP posts:
clarissa469 · 03/08/2019 09:06

OP - again. What are you looking to gain from this thread? You don't seem to be taking any thing away from it and you're just getting yourself all bothered that people aren't agreeing with you. If you just came here to vent which I get we all need too, you should've been prepared for it. The bottom line yes, you're absolutely right. No one can judge unless they have been through it, but we can have an opinion - again I don't mean to offend you as a parent but I can't imagine SS being involved in my child's life unless they have given me a reason. Let it be that I've come from an abusive background, abuse victims can often go on to abuse. It doesn't mean you will or have, it's just a safety measure in most cases. No one here is accusing you of anything.

Eledamorena · 03/08/2019 09:06

I haven't read the whole thread as I know it would depress and frustrate me.

Prior to having close family go through the family court system, I would NEVER have believed the things that can happen. I have sat in court proceedings, numerous meetings with social workers, school staff, CAFCASS etc when my sister was having problems so have seen first hand how the process can work.

I'm sure there are very many dedicated, highly competent social workers who are good people. My experience is sadly miles away from this. I assumed at first that we were unfortunate enough to be working with one bad apple... until it became clear that the further up we went with complaints etc, the whole tree was rotten. The more we complained (through the proper channels, with evidence), the more my sister was mistreated, and of course by extension the children were badly affected.

We have since had involvement with 2 other local authorities and, while there does not seem to be the same level of misconduct, there is certainly incompetence.

I could write a book on this. Anyone who has not had their own bad experience of family court and social services would simply not believe what I had to say.

Our experience includes clear misconduct, lies, blatant misquoting of the children, ignoring any evidence from other parties such as school or GP that didn't fit the narrative, failing to read reports and therefore writing reports full of false information of missing vital facts, and giving misleading information to one parent and being more forthcoming with the other. We did have one clerk in court who once called a social worker out on some aspects of this but the next time we had different clerks and magistrates. We tried and failed to procure court transcripts that would prove the clerk had outright stated that the social worker had acted illegally at one point.

To give a couple of specifics that I hope would shock you (if you believe them)...
Social services claimed that a 9 year old boy who had self-harmed (cutting) a number of times at school and had then talked about wanting to kill himself and later wrapped the cord of his PE bag round his neck was not at risk. It was not a concern that his father (who had residency at the time) had not sought medical advice or therapy, or even had a meeting with the school about it.

A second example - the father had been convicted of harassment and battery of the mother prior to family court proceedings. Social services failed to refer to this in any reports, and when called on it said he had recognised his actions and moved on. This was barely a year after the conviction and he had pleaded not guilty and never admitted fault or apologised.

On the flip side of this - my sister cried or got frustrated with social workers several times, which I would suggest is a 'normal' emotional reaction to a very traumatic situation. They repeatedly claimed she had mental health and anger issues. She got letters from GP and counsellors dismissing this and attended anger management classes to prove she was cooperating, but continued to be labelled as mentally unstable in future reports. There was not only no evidence of this, there was actually letters from professionals stating she had no such issues.

These are just a few of the more easy-to-explain issues we had, in just our family. If only a fraction of the families involved with children's services have only a fraction of the problems we did, it is still a horrendous situation.

Going through all this with my sister made me very, very wary of social services. While I felt very unlikely to ever find myself in a similar situation, I remember not just thinking but actually concluding that if social services ever had concerns about my children that appeared as though they might escalate, I would leave the country with them before they placed any restrictions on me. And I say this as a boring, 30-something, middle class teacher. Radical, yes. But having seen what I've seen, I would not risk significant social services involvement in my particular local authority.

notacooldad · 03/08/2019 09:08

The bar really isn't high for removal. Oh dear
It really is though. Our authority is struggling like mad to find foster placements for fostering breakdowns never mind family breakdowns.
We have kids staying with us as emergency placements and searches are done every day to find some where throughout the whole of the country. One kid was with is fo 90 days!! That is no longer an energency placement but a place of limbo for the child. If our authority can't cope with the naturally breaking down of placements they certainly don't want to take others into care. It is a very last resort . At CP conference every kind of support is offered to the family to try and keep them together. It is only in the most extreme cases children are removed and the ones I have seen removed over the last few years should have happened a lot sooner in my and other staffs opinion to protect the child/ children from harm.

Isatis · 03/08/2019 09:08

No child should be put through forced adoption.

And yet, OP, you say you should have been taken away from your parents. What do you say should have happened to you that would have been better than adoption by loving adoptive parents?

Nothingcomesforfree · 03/08/2019 09:10

I would say the whole system is incredibly flawed.You only have to look at the stats for care leavers to know something is wrong.The care system is also incredibly expensive

Private care homes are common. They also seem to not last long. Two I know of shut in the same 12 months because the big houses were sold to property developers ( after making a killing as a care home and prices went up).
3 months notice was given - kids got told two weeks before so they could worry about it for months. Think about how well you cope moving house and then think how you would cope having to move twice with different people twice.

Social workers move all the time. Great for them, rubbish fir the children’s continuity.
Foster cares often don’t last for more than a couple of years as the mix of children changes. Endless expensive meetings that the children dread because decisions are made to stay or move them in.Stability is what the system lacks and what children need most.

It’s pitiful.

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 09:17

If you actually read my previous posts. You'll find that I've said that when children are neglected and abused that's a different story. But being removed and put for adoption because that child could be potentially at risk of significant emotional/physical harm. I don't see how that's right.

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Sootyandsweep2019 · 03/08/2019 09:27

I can't comment on children's services but the adult soical worker's involved in coordinating my Nan's care were exception Ally rude and agressive to family member's acting in my Nan's best interest; and generally as useful as a chocolate teapot 😒 also incredibly patronizing, so I can well believe some of the complaints people have about children's services.