People who have never experienced being in family court

[SavanahXx]

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

I think you'll find I have alot of experience in the impact of DV and sexual abuse on children, given I was one of them children.

Will you listen to my view now?

@Drpeppered and @jellycatspyjamas

Are you really SWs? You seem awfully defensive and sarcastic towards the OP. I’m sorry to say but it’s only cementing her views of SWs if you cannot even engage with her in a civil manner.

That's not fair Jelly. Some of us have parents who have exactly the skills you describe, and more experience in senior positions, possibly a lot more than you. And even they have admitted that cases were poor, worse than any others they'd seen in their career.

Do you honestly think all it takes is a social workers report? That report is one part of a body of evidence including health, education, police records - that information is then interrogated by at least one senior in social work and then - in Scotland - a sheriff, increasingly parents have legal representation too. The information then goes to a lay panel who actually make the final decision - there’s a complete lack of understanding about what it takes to remove a child, it’s not actually the social worker who makes the decision but please, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good kicking.

I've had a couple of experiences with SS.

First, when I was a child. My siblings and I should have been removed, I've said since being an adult and since realising how bad things were. They were involved however we were kept in an environment with an alcoholic and a child molester (I don't think they knew at the time but apparently I made some comments about him 'touching me').

Secondly with my DP's DB. His children were quite rightly removed, he and his gf neglected the children and were both cocaine addicts.

I've seen plenty of bad parents that have had social services involved and the children haven't been removed. In my experience it isn't easy to have children removed.

Well the one time I've known involvement (close family) they've been spot on with their decision making so maybe that balances out one of your grievances, OP.

And for your criticism, maybe you could email your MP to call for greater resourcing. Can't have escaped your notice it's a service that gets regularly underfunded for the important role they have. More time per case may lead to better scrutiny of the cases where they don't always make the right call.

Exactly jelly your in Scotland. For a newborn it's incredibly easy. They can't talk. Minimal health records/school records/gp records. All it takes is a social worker thinking the parents could potentially put the child at risk of significant harm' and if worded in a bad way in the evidence for the second hearing, the judge can grant removal while assessments are taking place etc. Meaning the mother and father don't get to bond with the baby and the baby is then placed with strangers. How can you justify that?

Are you really SWs? You seem awfully defensive and sarcastic towards the OP. I’m sorry to say but it’s only cementing her views of SWs if you cannot even engage with her in a civil manner.

Honestly, I’m so tired of social workers getting the blame at every turn. The colleagues I work with do their best to work to a high standard in near impossible circumstances.

If we register children, we’re interfering, if we remove children we’re harming them, if we leave children and something goes wrong, we’re personally responsible for the child’s death. So yes, I am defensive of a vastly under valued profession that I’ve given years of my life to.

If the OP wanted a civil discussion she might not have framed the debate in terms of lying, manipulative professionals, I’m happy to talk about good and not so good practice - it happens in every walk of life. But framing the discussion in terms of “if they left this poor mistreated family alone, those two children wouldn’t be dead” doesn’t lend itself to civility when every case on a children and family social workers case load (including the poor mistreated family) could end up in tragedy, for which the social worker will be held accountable.

Your highly defensive given I didn't say that all social workers lie and manipulate, but alot do.

How can you justify that?

If there’s reason to think the parents might place their child at significant risk, it must have come from somewhere. A previous child being removed, evidence of domestic abuse, drug use, significant impairment - believe it or not we don’t stalk the wards of maternity units looking for babies to remove, there will have been a reason for social work involvement. I can’t comment on whether it was a reasonable decision or not - you clearly think it wasn’t. But temporarily removing a child for assessment of parenting capacity may be a completely reasonable course of action, particularly given the vulnerability of newborns. I’m pretty sure we’ve had this conversation on a previous thread so I’m going to bow out of the discussion at this point.

@SavanahXx you've got no proof at all that a lot do, that is your opinion so of course it's going to upset people who work in SS.

Of course some will get it wrong, we're all humans but to say that a lot of them lie and manipulate is very wrong imo.

All it takes if for an anonymous caller to make an allegation about a family. They have to investigate.

The parents have no chance if they get one of the bad social workers. They then end up having their child removed for anything up to six months. For something that was proven to be false.

Yeah sorry OP but your initial post did not in any way say that ‘some’ SWs are rubbish. I’ll copy it here for you.

*It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change*

There are shit people in every profession. Every single one. SW is underfunded and staff are overworked doing a very hard job which they have to balance on a knife edge. Your experience is clearly colouring your opinion.

i've been a foster carer and emergency foster carer for over 12 years, in that time i've fostered dozens of children who've been removed, including many newborns. in all that time i can only think of 2 children where, in my view, it wasn't justified that the child be removed. thats not to say all those children were removed permanently, in fact most weren't and went back to their parents with support in place, but the alternative of letting people who need support just crack on and then see what needs doing is terrifying.
the 2 cases where in my view removal wasn't necessary were resolved and the children returned very quickly.
i think most social workers are doing their best.

Out of the 11 social workers I have had involvement with through my life, I've had a positive experience with 1. So yeah. I'm saying I personally think alot of, definitely in my area given we don't have hundreds of social workers. And apologies for not wording my initial post differently.

In my previous life when I worked with SW's I would say the opposite. They tended to try to leave the child with a parent as far as it was possible. If there were concerns a team of people would be involved and a lot of time taken to discuss and address issues. Obviously cases of serious abuse would be handled immediately.

Although in this case (in the article) something obviously went seriously wrong. Generally I think SW's are between a rock and a hard place. They can be criticised for stepping in and also for not acting sooner.

savannah Have you had a child taken from you where you feel it was unnecessary?
I’m sorry if this happened to you.. Why would social workers want to take children in to the care system? Where they will wait for a suitable family? This then increases the SW work load. It doesn’t make sense.
Yes I’m sure SW make mistakes, as do all humans
My sister was reported to SS when her daughter was 4 months old. My sister was a loan parent and we think a particularly nasty neighbour rang SS because my sister was unmarried! SS came and saw that my niece was perfectly fine. Do you think SS see families who are fine and just decide to take their children?

That must of been a few years ago then?
Social services were different a few years ago, as I've already stated, i personally know the effects of dv and sexual abuse to a child. I SHOULD of been removed. But I wasn't. SS were involved and were involved all the way through my life. Still, I wasn't removed. Again. They failed. I know the difference between a child who is in need, and a child who has a loving home and loving parents with a social worker trying to downplay good parenting to the extent that a child is removed.

No my child was not removed, because thankfully the judge seen through the social workers lies and how they tried to manipulate alot of information. But some judges aren't as good as the one I had. Some are on the side of SS. Therefore making it really hard for a parent to prove their child is not at risk.

I’m sorry you have been through that savannah
I was a victim of CSA. We never had SS involved. We really should have though, but who is to say anything would have been better?

When CSA happens SS are automatically suppose to get involved and assess the situation, but it was a different time. Social workers didn't really do the same as they do now.

I have never experienced it OP but I just don’t trust SS I don’t believe that they will work in the best interest of the child

@Screamanger I'm glad someone agrees

They won’t work in the best interest of the child? Then who are they working for? What advantage will they have if they take a child from their loving parents? I just can’t get on board with the conspiracy theories

Having recently had dealings with a social worker due to malicious phone call I cannot fault them at all. They are doing a very difficult job in very difficult circumstances and whatever they do people are going to blame them when things go wrong