What is fair here? 🤷‍♀️

[Sundancer77]

I’m a teacher and occasionally babysit in the holidays for big jobs-weddings etc as it’s great money. Months ago, a parent of a child I used to teach contacted me and said the company she works for were looking for a babysitter for 8 hours for a group of 6 children with a provided room at a wedding. The hotel venue is almost an hour away and I’d be driving back past midnight (have a baby dd so am pretty exhausted these days!) so I was quite reluctant and only agreed due to the good pay (pay based on price per child, per hour.
The family transferred the deposit to me (half of the overall pay-€300) and I would receive the further €300 on the night, with extra pay for any extra children or if we ran over (which they said we likely would) so weighing it up, the travel/hassle etc was worth the pay.
Now..a couple of days ago, the Mum who works for the company contacted me and said there had been big family problems, many of the guests had, had to cancel and as a result they’d only been one child to babysit. Also as a result, she said to keep the deposit (well, I’d already spent it!) and on the night wouldn’t receive any pay as working out the deposit they’d already paid, for one child per hour, it’s a good amount and can cover my travel etc.
Aibu to feel pissed off? Obviously it can’t be helped if guests pull out (due to a family illness) but I wouldn’t have taken the job if I was only getting paid the fee of the deposit due to the long drive, late hours etc. I only agreed as the pay was worth it? So what happens now? What’s fair in this situation? Do I have to do it as they paid half the pay on a deposit? If I don’t want to do it (I don’t) do I pay the deposit back??

I think on balance I would do it.

It's clear there was a per-child and per-hour element in the original agreement ("with extra pay for any extra children or if we ran over"). So the client is being reasonable in expecting a reduction now there are fewer children.

It seems more likely that the "deposit" was a payment in advance, and without a contract or terms or conditions it will be difficult to say whether this is refundable or not.

If you do refuse to do the work and keep the £300 paid so far, you will make yourself unpopular with this client and probably lose the opportunity of doing any further work for them.

Conversely, if you explain that you are not happy with the situation, for the reasons you give (travel, etc.), but you understand the client's difficulties and will complete the job for the fee paid, then they are likely to be appreciative of this and book you in future.

You do have the option of a substitute, but this involves you in work finding them and then you have to pay them, make sure the client is still happy, etc. So it may end up being more trouble than just doing the job yourself.

I would take from this the lesson that proper terms and conditions should be agreed for all jobs in advance. Consider how you would have anticipated this situation and the outcome you would have preferred, and write that into your T&Cs.

Can you contact the agency? See what they say. But you can't keep the 300 and not do it.

I think you are looking for a way out, and don't really want to do it - but you really ought to. And if you cancel you'll be in the wrong.
That said, they have changed the plans, and it's not ok for you. Therefore you should offer a compromise, eg. €400 or €450, instead of the original €600: so keep the deposit and ask for an extra €100/€150 on the night.
Good luck!

The whole point of a deposit is that it is non refundable.

If it is clear in your messages that it is a deposit and not just half of the fee paid upfront the you are perfectly within your rights to keep it in the event of cancellation.

I recently stayed in a hotel where it was very clear in the t&c that if you cancelled the booking, your deposit would be non refundable. Completely reasonable IMO.

@Yabbers Whose done nothing wrong? I’m not saying the Mum representing the company has done anything ‘Wrong’ the job was set for 6 children at over double the anticipated fee 🤷‍♀️ I did say to her that it was a long way and I’d get back to her etc (at the time had not long had my baby) but did I need to specify that at any time it goes from 6 to 1 child and will be less than half the wage, I’m not doing it? 🤷‍♀️🙈 I wasn’t expecting the changes.

"did I need to specify that at any time it goes from 6 to 1 child and will be less than half the wage, I’m not doing it?" I think yes, you did. If you were quoting a fixed price of £600 for 1-6 children with additional costs for more children, you should have made that clear in writing, then you would not be having this discussion now.

I think yes, you did. If you were quoting a fixed price of £600 for 1-6 children with additional costs for more children, you should have made that clear in writing, then you would not be having this discussion now.

I agree.

Just do it.You still b 300 euro better off.If its only for 1 child,maybe they will be back early and you can go early.

And to be fair its not the other persons fault loads of others pulled out.She drew the short straw,so dont be too hard on her.

In all honesty, that’s what I was told at the time, it was all arranged with a big group, activities I’d be doing etc, price was agreed and deposit paid up front in accordance..so I didn’t think to stipulate different scenarios.if there was only one child, 3 children, 5 etc etc..It was agreed on the price as it was, 6 children were there abc she said any ‘Extra’ would be accounted for.

And to be fair its not the other persons fault loads of others pulled out.She drew the short straw,so dont be too hard on her.

Presumably the deposit will be paid by the people who cancelled too though?

@dustarr73 Definitely haven’t been hard on her 🤷‍♀️🙈 She’s very chilled about the whole thing.

I think your choice is to either do it for the £300 or return all of most of the £300. Consider it an expensive lesson to make sure you treat it like the side business it is, and have proper written agreements in future.

IANAL, but as it was a large deposit (50%), they could argue that they didn't pay a non-refundable deposit but rather a part-payment, which would be at least partly refundable. See here and here. Not worth the hassle IMO to fight them on this and it's unlikely to do your reputation any good for future work.

The fact that you’ve spent the money should not be a factor in what you do here. That’s completely irrelevant either morally or legally.

”I recently stayed in a hotel where it was very clear in the t&c that if you cancelled the booking, your deposit would be non refundable. Completely reasonable IMO.”

Fine, but the OP hasn’t done that- she hasn’t issued any t&c being clear that she takes a deposit of 50% which is non refundable in the event of the job being cancelled or changed in any way.

A deposit was paid. They pull out they lose deposit.

If the original agreement was based per child per hour (with extra if extra children and overtime) I think you are being a bit picky if you are now declining what is in effect over double pay for minding one child. I would still do the job but make sure overtime rates for any after the agreed time and substantial rates for any extra children they stick in with you are agreed up front and in writing (especially late payment)

It's a decent wage for what doesn't sound very onerous work to be honest, especially since you won't be paying tax on it.

Personally I'd go back with something in between. I would explain that you only took the job because the number of children made the rate worthwhile and that you have an hours travel on either side. Say that you understand that the circumstances have changed and that's not her fault, so you think a fair arrangement would be to meet in the middle so £450 for the evening.

Oh and I wouldn't send a replacement, that sounds very tricky and could backfire on you if they are not up to scratch. If you decide not to do it, I think it would be wrong to keep £300, £100 seems more reasonable.

I wonder whether this would be different if you were the caterer, not the babysitter and this had happened? Would you expect the caterer to provide a reduced service for just the 50% deposit at this stage?

I think it is too loose to keep the deposit. Either return it minus a small amount for inconvenience or do the job - perhaps with some extra. Splitting the difference would be a compromise on both sides.

I.e £450

But if they’d booked a band for the wedding, and paid a deposit, then decided to pull out as not enough guests, they’d lose the deposit. That’s the whole point of a deposit surely?

I think the issue is that the ‘deposit’ is 50%, if it was a more normal 10-20% then it would feel easier to keep.

Thanks all, going to think some more and message her on Monday just being honest..the way I am, I imagine I’ll just end up doing it 🤣 I really don’t want to though and preferring to give back the 300 really proves that to me 🙈

It's all a matter of opinion I suppose but I personally would do it for £300 and chalk it up as an inconvenience (that was worth £300). If not I would feel only right to return the money.

What I really don't agree with is paying someone £37.50 an hour out of the money you have received. That's messy and doesn't sit right with me. Its not up to you to select / hire someone to look after this child.

I wouldn't do it now

I'd message "Sorry to hear about the change in circumstances, I wouldn't have accepted for £300 as it's a bit far and late for me now I've got (baby name)

I can try to find someone else to do it for you? To be honest I'm not sure what to suggest about the deposit paid as I've kept the day free and turn down other work.

What do you think is fair?"

Put it back on her, especially if you're considering returning it all anyway, there's nothing to lose by asking her thoughts.

@Rivkka I think this is a great option!

I would keep the deposit. Any other wedding supplier would!