To ask leavers if they would vote differently now it's looking like no deal?

[TheoriginalLEM]

And as such should we go for another referendum?

I voted to remain and would continue to do so even if a deal was possible. However it is apparent that a deal isn't going to happen. Was it ever really going to be possible?

Would that change the mind of leavers? Or even remainers?

I would prefer to see no deal (even though I know its shit) than for this car crash to continue in slow motion any further.

Leave still.

The EU have behaved extremely badly over this and I can’t see why Remainers can’t see that. Their position is pretty much ‘Remain or we will destroy you’ and I can’t understand why anyone would want to be part of an organisation like that.

Theresa May went to them with an open hand trying to be adult and sensible and wanting to build a positive relationship. Barnier has said she never once used ‘no deal’ as leverage or a bargaining tool, she never mentioned it. The EU decided to take the piss with the backstop in an attempt to force Remain. They calculated badly and their gamble hasn’t paid off, their attempts to manipulate the UK into Remain has instead created the situation where we may well leave with no deal. They passed up their chance for a mutually beneficial deal with a conciliatory PM.

The stuff about the EU army and Verhofstadt’s saying about being an armed power with the vetos scrapped is terrifying. Armies can be used on their own citizens and the EU has proved desperate to stop states leaving, it’s a possibility in the future we’ll be looking down the barrel of an EU gun to get out so we need to go now. The blind eye to violent suppression of protests in Catalonia and France they can’t be assumed to be reluctant to use force.

But third, it's too expensive for most members to enjoy these exotic splendours! It's like a pyramid scheme, the masses all chip in to the 'kitty' and can only watch the upper levels enjoy snorkelling.
And, all the other countries see our pyramid, and want in, so the bottom layer gets saturated with members who all have to share the dusty old exercise bike.

I'm enjoying this analogy 😀, and the ability to actually join in a brexit thread without (well, mrpan aside) the usual insults!

@HarryElephante, I think it's stuff like shared ethics (like the Germans and litter) and mutual goals. I know @MrPan is trying to shoehorn in his nazi accusations, but he's grasping at teeny tiny straws tbh.

The EU have behaved extremely badly over this and I can’t see why Remainers can’t see that. Their position is pretty much ‘Remain or we will destroy you’ and I can’t understand why anyone would want to be part of an organisation like that.

I'm the opposite. I don't understand why some leavers think the EU has treated us badly. We voted to leave the EU, which happens to be our biggest trading partner. The point of being in any club is that it brings benefits. If we want to leave, we choose to lose those benefits. The gym analogy might not be perfect but it makes the point.. Plus, it is the UK that happens to have a land-border with the EU that is one of the most contentious borders anywhere in the World.

Theresa May went to them with an open hand trying to be adult and sensible and wanting to build a positive relationship.

She didn't come with an open hand, she came with a number of red-lines which ruled out membership of the CU, the SM, etc. So, the WA is about as good as we could get, given our flexibility. And then it was us who came up with the backstop.

It's amazing how so many are able to rewrite history

"The EU have behaved extremely badly over this"

How, exactly?

You know, for instance, who drafted the backstop in the first place? Hint: it wasn't the EU. It was, in fact, the very people who are now in the cabinet going around calling it the 'undemocratic' backstop. Whatever the hell that means.

So perhaps stop listening to the lies.

Theresa May went to them with an open hand trying to be adult and sensible and wanting to build a positive relationship

So say the spin doctors. We have no idea what is actually going on. But what is true, is that the political parties will tell you (one) what they want to hear. And in this case, it's that the EU is a big, bad, unreasonable monster.

The whole thing has been a farce from start to finish.

The EU decided to take the piss with the backstop in an attempt to force Remain.

The backstop was the UK's idea!!

A NO DEAL STORY – remember no analogy is perfect.
You live rurally, bit cut off from all the nearest towns, so you source nearly everything via your local supermarket. You don’t like the layout, the prices, the uniforms the staff wear, lots of things get on your nerves about the place. Over the years you complain about this and that and they listen to some of your concerns and change things, but there’s always something else you can find to complain about. Maybe you (secretly) don’t like the fact that some of the checkout staff are – shhh – brown!

Eventually all of your objections get the better of you and you tell them you want a sweeping new arrangement or you’re going to shop SOMEWHERE ELSE and they’d better listen because THEY NEED YOUR MONEY MORE THAN YOU NEED THEM. You and the supermarket enter into lengthy negotiations but your demands get ever more strident and they do not budge on certain things.
So you decide you really don’t need them.

And without having anywhere else to shop, or understanding that actually wherever you shop you’re going to encounter things you don’t like and are going to have to put up with, or admitting to yourself that the next nearest supermarket or shopping complex is about a thousand times further away than your local one and is going to cost you in time and fuel way beyond anything you’re going to save, plus it’s currently run by someone who many people view as, at best, volatile and unpredictable and distinctly out for himself, not you as a potential customer, without resolving or even admitting to any of this you get so angry that… you blow up the road that you drive along to get to the supermarket.

Delighted with your handiwork, it then takes you so long to get to your alternative shopping centre that you run out of fuel on the way and by the time you’ve sourced fuel and driven there they’re closed, and you bang on the door but they’re not opening for just you, why would they?
Sitting in your precious little car, your domain, your home turf, celebrating your great achievement, you starve.

I wouldn't vote differently but I've vote with much more confidence.

"Would that change the mind of leavers? Or even remainers?"

No, that wouldn't change my mind. What might change my mind is if the EU cared even remotely about what we want and don't want from the it, and stopped hiding behind their indivisibility dogma.

Voted Leave then and would vote Leave again. Just get us out!

The idea that the EU should give the UK everything it wanted and send us off into the sunset is one of the most laughably daft things that brexiters think. Who, in their right minds, thought that we'd end up with a better deal outside the EU than within it, especially given the land of chocolate and gold we were promised was all lies anyway?

It was always going to leave the UK worse off. Always. This should not come as a surprise to anyone.

This country has lost its fucking mind.

Sensible Brexit advocates such as Richard North have totally distanced themselves from the ERG nut jobs who are now running the country.

The hard of thinking are in charge and people still want it! Fools.

Perfect analogy sabbatical. Maybe they run out of essential medicine at the same time.

Yes, longwayoff - they get their prescriptions filled at the supermarket pharmacy!

I worked with a guy who came over from Belgium to do some work and he said a lot of them would love to leave and it’s growing all over Europe.

This is factually untrue. Polling reveals a drop in support for leaving the EU across the board.

I voted Remain and will continue to vote Remain, but I actually don’t see how we will ever undo the harm this referendum has done to our society. To see so many posters on here repeating the dishonest and (to my mind) scarily populist view that our politicians have betrayed us and the EU has punished us just makes me think we are going down a road that leads to very unpleasant places.

I am also deeply worried at the mantra that No Deal sees it all done and dusted. I totally understand the fatigue of Brexit, and I have been anxious pretty much every day since June 2016, but No Deal ends nothing. We will be in dire straits economically and will still have to negotiate every trade deal with everyone, and agree political positions and immigration arrangements. And we’ll still be legally liable for £39bn to the EU, and no arrangement at all will be possible till we pay that. I can guarantee that people will be far, far more sick of Brexit if No Deal happens than if a deal is agreed. And the deal we had would have passed if the most ardent Brexiteers in the Commons had voted for it, so if anyone has ignored the voters, it’s them.

Sensible Brexit advocates such as Richard North have totally distanced themselves from the ERG nut jobs

I'm a leaver, and totally agree with the 'ERG nut jobs' description

They're still wanging on now about voting against whatever deal Boris brings back, regardless of what it is

They're so immersed in their own ideology that they're ultimately willing to stop us leaving

Extremist ideologists of all shades (be it leave/remain, left/right etc) are all as bad as each other imo

What might change my mind is if the EU cared even remotely about what we want and don't want from the it, and stopped hiding behind their indivisibility dogma.

They are legally bound to consider the needs of all Member States. They arrived to negotiations ready to discuss and found the UK politicians unprepared, unable to explain what they wanted, offering red lines that were impossible to work with to create any sensible deal, and downright ignorant. I don’t think they ever got a useful sense of what we DID want, other than the impossible delivery of all the benefits of EU membership with absolutely none of the obligations.

"This country has lost its fucking mind."

Ain't that the truth. Just look at the shower of idiots who now run it.

I wouldn't bother to vote.

KidLorneRoll

Just look at the shower of idiots who now run it.

It is the same shower of shit that ran it before.

My tribe is European. I am able to hold two identities in my mind, British and European, in the same way I can be a sister and a daughter.

No, this shower are def. stupider and therefore more pliable for the Bannon types.
And ambitious for the trinkets of power. Because they are stupider.

See Truss' empty folder the other day? Volumes.

Nope still would vote leave, a no deal isn’t the terrible thing everyone thinks it is. We’re a strong country and we’ll be fine.

a no deal isn’t the terrible thing everyone thinks it is.

Why do you think that?

Yep birds - I am English northern by situation, Irish/Scottish, European, world citizen.

Only the unevolved remain in one identity.