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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask leavers if they would vote differently now it's looking like no deal?

703 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 02/08/2019 07:31

And as such should we go for another referendum?

I voted to remain and would continue to do so even if a deal was possible. However it is apparent that a deal isn't going to happen. Was it ever really going to be possible?

Would that change the mind of leavers? Or even remainers?

I would prefer to see no deal (even though I know its shit) than for this car crash to continue in slow motion any further.

OP posts:
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6
Songsofexperience · 03/08/2019 19:11

No deal will only be the beginning of a very long and fraught period of us looking for our place in the world and trying to regain the prosperity we're stupidly destroying.

HateIsNotGood · 03/08/2019 19:18

How many pages back do I need to look for "bottling it" (or not) as a raison d'etre for getting on with Leave please?

time4chocolate · 03/08/2019 19:25

It’s not “bottling it” to protect the country, the economy and our people from financial meltdown. That’s the sensible thing to do

No, the sensible thing to do would have been for all those MPs whose job it is to keep the country running, to have given some thought and consideration to all the possible outcomes before we got off first base. Too late to do the homework now, the exam has already been taken.

LatteLove · 03/08/2019 19:28

No, the sensible thing to do would have been for all those MPs whose job it is to keep the country running, to have given some thought and consideration to all the possible outcomes before we got off first base

Well I don’t disagree with that, but without a time machine we can’t change it. Given that, the sensible thing now IMO is to revoke A50 with a view to retriggering again when an acceptable deal is reached (not another referendum, I don’t want that). Not to crash out causing meltdown

HateIsNotGood · 03/08/2019 19:42

I think that uncertainty is far more damaging than the 'need to get on with it' view. This is what is driving the no deal force - even BJ has said that he would prefer a Deal, but if the EU won't budge on re-opening the negotiations (which I think they are actually doing btw behind the scenes) then the only way to obtain clarity for all concerned is to go No Deal.

The main problem with the RoI/NI Border is not the terminologies, the GFA nor technology but that a very, very small minority of people who will, and threaten to, revert back to terrorist activities - killing their fellow human beings. Now if only the GFA had put paid to all that sort of thing it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but now we know it was just a sticking plaster over a pulsating abcess, the GFA never did solve that problem after all did it?

Which is such a dreadful shame.

lljkk · 03/08/2019 19:52

I'm not convinced that uncertainty is worse than No Deal.

Business is used to being agile, dealing with evolving & uncertain situations and being poised to seize opportunities.

Very expensive barriers to doing business which is what crashing out amounts to for many enterprises, those can make any business model impossible.

Jason118 · 03/08/2019 19:55

@HateIsNotGood Now if only the GFA had put paid to all that sort of thing
Er, it did.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 03/08/2019 20:02

revert back to terrorist activities

To some in NI, the British army were the terrorists.

Also, there were loyalist and republican bombers, it's not just the IRA. Your ignorance of the situation is showing.

Now if only the GFA had put paid to all that sort of thing it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but now we know it was just a sticking plaster over a pulsating abcess, the GFA never did solve that problem after all did it?

The GFA was never a solution to the issue, it was a compromise which meant all sides agreed to the terms of the Agreement in order to bring peace by means of ceasefire. The ceasefire only lasts because the GFA has been stuck to thus far. If it is not adhered to, the ceasefire is void.

It's also important to remember that atrocities were committed by all sides, not one group comes out of it covered in glory.

What is certain is that it was innocents who suffered before, and it is innocents who will suffer again.

Because Britain fucked up. Again.

Redspider1 · 03/08/2019 20:13

When you decide to steal parts of other countries, the shit will come back to haunt you.

HateIsNotGood · 03/08/2019 20:24

Jason if only the GFA had put paid to it (I thought it had too) then not only would Lyra McKee not have been murdered but her murderer(s) would have been arrested by now. Of course people know who did it, a tiny few might think it ok because they think she was just collateral damage created by 'the cause', but most who know won't say anything because of the fear, intimidation and consequences if they do..

Yes Lisbon some do think that way about Brit soldiers - and so they still do, so GFA never stopped that way of thinking did it? I too wish it had. The best way forward is for all 'sides' to get their arses back in Stormont and argue it through there - not killing young girls on the pavement nor anyone else for that matter.

HateIsNotGood · 03/08/2019 20:34

Redspider do you have a solution to this historical problem other than your 'illustrative' post?

Benjispruce · 03/08/2019 20:39

Yes, make Ireland complete. Border sorted. If only it were that simple.

Redspider1 · 03/08/2019 20:40

I agree. English barbarians!

InTheHeatofLisbon · 03/08/2019 20:44

not killing young girls on the pavement nor anyone else for that matter.

I agree. I'm not on anyone's side. I'm just pointing out all sides. DP is ex army, my dad's best friend was killed by the IRA, I'm Catholic. I have no sides.

Lyra McKee's senseless murder was absolutely indefensible and should be held up as an example of the slaughter of the innocents caused by civil war. The scum who killed her should serve whole life tariffs, no question.

She was innocent and she matters.

Jason118 · 03/08/2019 20:50

@HateIsNotGood I know it's not perfect, and I'm in no way belittling recent events. Compared to how things were, it's like comparing chalk with helium. Brexit fucks with all the progress that had been made and for what? For fuck all that's what, and I'm sick to the back teeth of people trying to justify Brexit on the basis that 'it won't be that bad' Why ffs should it be bad at all? What fuckwits still support something that will be bad? What kinds of deluded fools are we surrounded by? Where's the leadership that's strong enough either to say 'sorry, it's not what we thought, we're not going to do it this way' or 'we oppose this shitshow unreservedly, and will stop it. Why are we led by donkeys, is this something we somehow deserve for being too compliant with everything? Have too many of us lost critical thinking abilities? It makes me so fucking angry. Rant over (for now).

Roussette · 03/08/2019 21:04

Jason so right

Coppersulphate · 03/08/2019 21:20

I voted leave and would again.

HateIsNotGood · 03/08/2019 21:22

I do agree that Brexit does 'fuck with' GFA and what we now know is just a veneer of Peace, not the actual Peace we all thought it was - given Lyra's murder.

However, to think that the UK can not leave the EU because a tiny amount of people on the island of Ireland would use this as a reason to resume killing people in the name of their cause is not a good enough reason to not consider Brexit at all.

Whilst the 'terrorists' from both 'sides' might like to think that they're getting their revenge on the UK/RoI - mostly they're holding the gun to the head of the woman down the road who fell in love with a man they didn't approve of, or a son who wanted to be a policeman.

These are the things that need to be resolved - not by Brexit, which has at least shone the light on these problems that didn't really disappear with the GFA - but need resolution by the people that live there. The NI Alliance Party needs a place to go and Stormont awaits them.

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/08/2019 21:26

Why are we led by donkeys, is this something we somehow deserve for being too compliant with everything?

In answer

"Every nation gets the government it deserves"
Joseph de Maistre

Roussette · 03/08/2019 21:31

I voted leave and would again

Why?

I've yet to come across one benefit

icanbewhatiwant · 03/08/2019 21:33

I voted leave. I still would. Though I think if they do another vote it would be remain. The thousands of youngsters that weren't eligible to vote last time will be remainers, enough to sway the vote anyway.
Surely we will be better off not giving millions to the EU? We pay way more to the EU than many other countries, why is that fair? Other countries will still want us to buy their food, cars etc. Also we should eat/use our own produce before buying from other countries. We import meat, milk etc. we should be using it from this country first. I say this coming from a farming family. Most farmers I know want to leave, even though they aren't quite sure what'll happen.
Regardless of how I voted, I think the people made a decision so it should be done. It's costing millions, will continue to cost millions and I wonder whether we will ever leave. If the vote had been remain then I would have accepted it and moved on.

icanbewhatiwant · 03/08/2019 21:39

Also some of the richer countries in Europe are not members of the EU...why is that?

HateIsNotGood · 03/08/2019 21:40

Rousette FOM has had negative impacts on the wages of the low-paid - even the overall 'positive economic impact' studies state this. It's quite obvious really when you think about it - an infinite amount of 'workers' resulting in worker supply exceeding demand will create this situation.

You did ask for a positive and I've given one.

lljkk · 03/08/2019 22:05

The impact of All (not just EU) migrants on wages in UK is tiny... and may result in lower costs goods and services for everybody otherwise.

From what I can tell, making it harder for EU folk to come to UK will increase migration from rest-World. rest-World tends to be poorer than EU. Does that mean leaving EU will lead to lower wages for the worst paid in UK? Hopefully not.

To ask leavers if they would vote differently now it's looking like no deal?
Jason118 · 03/08/2019 22:16

@HateIsNotGood However, to think that the UK can not leave the EU
Who said we can't leave? It's the irrational nature of doing it that is fundamentally fucking stupid. We (the country) need to just stop this before it gets worse.