To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

Interesting that there have recently been a couple of threads about the lack of resilience in younger people nowadays and how to teach that resilience. Given some of the responses in on this thread it’s easy to see why!!

OP you know your daughter so YANBU to trust your instincts on this one. Plus YWNBU to hang up on her when she was swearing at you. I also do not think YWBU to make her stick it out, particularly given the money you have spent. But, of course, that’s a judgment call for you.

Being resilient also means taking positive action and having a positive view of yourself. It doesn't just mean sticking with something that is crap and isn't working just for the sake of it. How many adults would hang round somewhere for 5 days if they really hated it?
For all we know if Ops daughter does come home early she will look at the experience as a learning opportunity and has shown resilience by taking action to get herself out of somewhere that is of no positive benefit.
Fragglerocking has made a really good point. Something may have happened she doesn't want to tell you about over the phone.

@nooboo2 - When you speak to your DD in the morning, if she's showing any positive signs that she might want to stay, I would encourage her to think of the following:

Yes, all these children go to the same school - a school she will not be attending, BUT they all live in the local area. People don't only socialise with friends from school or college; teenagers often have other friends too! Some may be friendships formed due to them being close neighbours, they might have Saturday jobs at the same place, they could have met at a party and hit it off, they may have friends they know from a group, such as Guides or a Drama Club, their parents might be friends and they could have met through them, they could have gone to infant school together but been separated for Middle/Junior school, but then gone to the same Senior school - or they could even have met on a 4 day summer holiday activity holiday, 2 hours from home!

Teenagers don't only socialise at school either, so any friends she makes on this activity holiday are likely to want to meet up with her to go to the cinema, to parties, bowling - or whatever it is that teenagers do when they get together after school or at the weekends these days! (my DDs are only 10 & 12 and it’s 20 years since I was a teenager!) It would be lovely for her to have some new friends to hang out with over the summer, and it's probable that some of them will know girls at her new College who they will be able to introduce her to when they get back, so she can begin to make friends who go to the same College as her before she starts in September.

I think if you can get this across to her, it might be enough 'food for thought' to help her to see the positives in sticking it out.

If, despite all this, she is still upset and wants to come home, I would go and get her - I wouldn't be able to bear the thought of one of my DDs being away and wanting, desperately to come home - to the point of sobbing down the phone but me forcing her to stay there and stick it out. It would leave her feeling utterly powerless and would be likely to adversely affect your relationship with your DD for some time to come, and coming so hot on the heels of her parents deciding to move her away from her home and friends, that could be disastrous.

If you do end up taking her home today, I would ask her to sit in the back of the car with you, so you can talk. I would start off by apologising for hanging up on her, as that was very rude. I would calmly explain again the reason why DH couldn't collect her last night, as she may not have been in a fit state to take it in when she was so distraught when you spoke last night. Hopefully she will apologise and thank you both for coming to get her and will have calmed down by this stage. I think then would be a good time to talk about how she's feeling after the move.

We did a 'big move' when our DDs were 8 and 10 and we spent a lot of time before we left talking about all the changes that would be happening and how they felt about them and coming up with various coping mechanisms, but once we had moved, I made the mistake of not following up and finding out how they were really feeling post-move. Obviously I asked how school was, were they making friends etc. but I didn't really give them the opportunity to just tell me what they wanted to tell me - of course I listened when they spoke to me, but what I mean is I never explicitly asked them "Now we've moved to ‘New City', how are you feeling about it? What do you like more here? What did you prefer about 'Old Village'? What could DH and I be doing that would make that easier/better for you?" etc. I have a feeling that your DD might appreciate the opportunity to get it all off her chest. It might be an emotional conversation (bring tissues!), and I'm sure she'll leave you with a healthy dose of 'Mum guilt', but in the long run, teenagers really appreciate being listened to, and feeling that she can talk to you about this stuff, that you are interested in how she feels about it and that you want to help, may well strengthen your relationship.

Oh, and do not mention all the money you spent on stuff for her trip - she'll probably use most of it at some stage anyway, and you're trying to make her feel better, not worse!

Good luck, I really hope for your DDs sake that she chooses to stay, but if she still wants to come home, have a safe trip.

Would your DD be crying down the phone for no good reason?

Have you ever met a 16yo? I couldn't even begin to count the number of totally ridiculous things I cried about as a teenager, and the drama level of my response was in no way indicative of the severity of the thing I was crying about.

This thread is baffling to me. From the truly hysterical suggestion that OP's daughter has been initiated into a cult to the veiled accusations that leaving a 16 year old for one night in a place where she is perfectly safe and provided for but not having a very nice time is tantamount to child abuse, there is a real disconnect between the facts OP has posted and the response to them.

It is a parent's job to raise children in a way which teaches them the skills they need to thrive in life. That very often involves making them do things they don't want to do, or teaching them lessons they don't want to learn. Things like 'you have to do your chores', and 'the world doesn't revolve around you, so sometimes you have to suck up situations you don't like'.

In this instance, it simply wasn't possible for OP's daughter to be picked up because the only driver had had a drink. But even if he had been able to drive, it would have been absurd for him to make a 4 hour round trip in the middle of the night to collect her, not least because of the inconvenience and disruption it would have caused to the other kids on the residential (whose feelings also matter) and to the organisers.

OP's daughter may be feeling overwhelmed, she may not be having a great time. But if she's going to be a decent adult who behaves considerately to others, she needs to learn that her feelings aren't more important than anyone else's. She was told she only had to stick it out for a night, that it wasn't safe for anyone to collect her, and her reaction to that was to shout and swear at her mother. Do you think it would be teaching her to be a good adult to concede to that kind of behaviour?

And it is NOT rude to hang up on someone who is swearing down the phone at you.

This is not going to help her make friends. Poor kid. She would have made friends on entering college anyway. But not as 'that weird new girl, with no friends, who came on the trip anyway'. OP this is not how teenage social bonding works. How would you feel, stuck with a load of adults intending on ignoring you? Go bloody get her. You made a mistake here...own it.

Can't believe you would move away so she loses all her friends, and then hang up on her in this situation. I feel really sorry for DD. You are not going to have a good relationship in the future if you keep treating her like baggage or an inconvenience.

Miljah

"As a HCP, I yet further understand why we all eye-roll when the out-patient is a female, aged 15-28, definitely; up to 35, maybe - why the chances of her becoming an hysterical mess at the suggestion of a cannula, a needle is so common, we have allow extra time with them. At least 75% of them.

Why are today's young women so pathetic"

Ever thought your in the wrong job. You sound awful

@SaraNade
Wow, you are a very aggressive and hostile person, Katie.

I think you'll find you're being the aggressive, hostile one. What Katie is saying is valid. DO you have a child's psychology qualification? If not, then you're doing what everyone else on this thread is doing, that is putting across your own viewpoint from personal experience. @DecomposingComposers, your experiences are quite extreme, so understandably your POV is very strongly opposed to that of the OP. But you too are coming across so aggressive and actually bullying towards the OP and other posters.
OP, I may well have done exactly the same as you in this situation. At that age my DD could be quite vitriolic towards me if she didn't get her own way. Carrying on a phone conversation with her when she was behaving that way would have been futile. She knew that if I stopped the conversation by hanging up then she had gone too far. She would eventually ring back, apologise and we would work things out rationally.

@angell84
“I think it is about having respect for her parents and not demand they go to get her, when they have been drinking. It is manners”

But DD doesn’t know her parents cannot come because they’ve been drinking. She wasn’t told that. She was told to suck it up, that it cant possibly be as bad as she says, mummy knows best, and to call back in the morning “if she’s still upset” and then ‘maybe’ she might get picked up.
Imho opinion, the parents should not have been drinking. When I sent my DDs to a summer camp for a week...one they were keen to go to because it was a horse riding camp...we did not drink because reality is that you are sometimes sold a bad bill of goods, or your child gets sick or injured- it is irresponsible to put yourself in a position of being under the influence of alcohol such that you cannot collect your child from a situation that has gone tits up.
I disagree it is disrespectful of DD to ask after a day of being there to come home. NCS is not her make or break chance to make friends. And since her session is all girls from a clique who all know each other and requested to be together it’s not a situation where making a friend is even likely. But some mums refuse to admit when a “good idea” they had was not a good idea but a bad idea. So they blame the kid for it failing...anything other than saying oh sorry that didn’t turn out as well as I thought it would, of course I can bring you home, just not tonight because we’ve had a drink, but first thing in morning.

My daughter is just back for a holiday with other children from the local area. She was only friends with one girl (but not best friends) before she went. She didn't share a room while away with this girl and they were in different groups during the day. My daughter is shy and I worried she wouldn't have a good time but also told her if there were any issues then to tell a leader. Thankfully she did make friends with others and I know this didn't happen over night.

OP you were right to leave her overnight as she may just be over emotional due to having travelled there and as you say overwhelmed and probably very tired. Hopefully after a sleep she'll be better and speak to others during breakfast and then continue the holiday. Xx

@gregoire
“Would your DD be crying down the phone for no good reason?*

Have you ever met a 16yo? I couldn't even begin to count the number of totally ridiculous things I cried about as a teenager, and the drama level of my response was in no way indicative of the severity of the thing I was crying about. “

I wrote that. Yes I have. LOTS of them. One of my DC is 16 and another 18 so I have more recent experience than you reminiscing about your own childhood. Last time a 16yr old was crying down the phone to me she had been noticed at the bus stop by a group of teen boys who then started to follow her....and were threatening to rape her ...so.yeah....this whole picture you are painting that every 16yr crying down a phone is hysterical is not always the case.

Absolutely not to picking her up. She needs to stick it out to try and make friends, it will build her resilience and also, does she want to be known at college as the kid that went home.

My heart bleeds for her but in five days she may come home and say it’s the best thing she did.

OP, remember that that the group leader's account of events may not be completely accurate. They had promised to put DD in a group of kids from different schools and did not do this. They won't be wanting a complaint from you, so they will have the incentive to present the events in a very positive light.

@MammaBot211
“projecting much? You are not there either so stop with your guilt tripping.”

I’m not projecting because the DD has called very upset and crying over the phone. She had no phone signal, so it is likely she had to jump throughout numerous hoops to get access to a staff phone to call. These are facts. She has not been and is not having a good time.

The only projection going on here are those who are pooh poohing and saying oh, she’s not really upset, she’ll be fine, she’ll have a great time when all evidence is to the contrary.

Poor girl. I had to move abroad with my parents when I was 16. I lost my best friend group I'd been friends with since we were 11 and have never had anyone I consider a true friend since... I'm 30. Cut her slack fgs, go collect her first thing in the morning :(

I wrote that. Yes I have. LOTS of them. One of my DC is 16 and another 18 so I have more recent experience than you reminiscing about your own childhood. Last time a 16yr old was crying down the phone to me she had been noticed at the bus stop by a group of teen boys who then started to follow her....and were threatening to rape her ...so.yeah....this whole picture you are painting that every 16yr crying down a phone is hysterical is not always the case.

And I've spent every summer for the last 10 years working with 15 and 16 year old girls at an 8 week sleep away summer camp, so I have a larger sample size than your two children. Lots of kids that age react dramatically to even fairly minor inconveniences. You can't treat every single one as an emergency, or you're teaching your children that their convenience is always the priority - over everyone else's feelings, wellbeing or even (in the OP's case) safety. That is how you raise children who turn into horrible adults.

I'm not saying a 16 year old would never have a reasonable reason for crying - clearly being threatened with rape is a terrifying thing, and in that instance your child was understandably very upset and in need of your help.

But I believe you can see and understand that being threatened with rape is not the same as being a bit miserable because you aren't having a nice time at a residential.

your experiences are quite extreme,

Why is my experience extreme though? Why was it not just like ops DDS experience? Nothing terrible happened to me on the trip to cause me to want to come home. I just knew that I did not want to be there and that I needed to go home.

What caused the experience to become extreme, and to go on to affect me for years after, was the reaction of the adults involved, mainly my parents. By refusing to let me come home they made me feel trapped and powerless which taught me to avoid any other situation like that.

In my view, the dd learnt certain things about her parents last night and that might negatively affect what she does in the future. The op doesn't really know what's going on there and why her dd is reacting like this. As I mentioned earlier, a similar trip that we heard about had episodes of drug taking occurring. Does the op know that the other teens on this trip are decent kids? Presumably, as they are strangers, she has no idea what they are like yet she's ok with forcing her dd to be with them. Who knows what is actually going on there? Maybe they are bullying her. But the op wasn't hearing what her dd was saying so she wouldn't know what's really going on.

I think sometimes with teens you have to ignore the way that they are communicating in order to hear what's really being said. I just find it sad that op hung up on her dd and then refused to answer the phone to her because the dd had sworn at her. Yes, ordinarily you wouldn't tolerate it but I would be more concerned with getting to the bottom of what was happening and trying to support my child than getting offended that they'd sworn at me.

She had no phone signal, so it is likely she had to jump throughout numerous hoops to get access to a staff phone to call. These are facts.

You have just given your view of the 'likely' situation, and then you assert 'these are facts'. They aren't facts! You've just invented a narrative!

Completely agree with @DecomposingComposers

Many many comments that she is nearly an adult, is an adult, is not six and yet she is prevented from making her own decisions?

The best thing you can teach your child is to have autonomy over what they do however she is prevented from doing this as she is unable to leave without help.

Far from making her do things in the future this could easily put her off since she would then be trapped.

The OP is projecting how she might feel if she leaves early - underestimating that her daughter would learn much from those feelings. Yes, the daughter needs to mature into adulthood but you have to allow her to make her owns decisions which she can then learn from.

I feel so strongly that children have to grow up knowing they can decide for themselves as otherwise if they have had a parent deciding for them at 16 it is so easy to go through life accepting other people making their decisions for them - like a partner.

I have a 18yr old girl, in this scenario I wouldn't have had a drink and I would have gone to get her. I trust her to know what she can and can't do and to make her own choices. She is in no way a snowflake and is currently going through a process work in the US.

Phone the centre and talk to one of the organisers and explain the situation. Ask them to get one or two girls (or boys) to look after her.

Can you send something to her that would encourage sharing, a cake, a drone (expensive but I'm trying to think) board game, something from iwoot? Obviously discuss this with the organiser.

gregoire

How would you deal with a child behaving as the ops dd is then? What's the protocol on the camps you've been on for dealing with a child that upset? And how would you deal with, say a medical emergency, when the parent come to the child because they've been drinking?

Regarding the DD swearing, yes it was OTT but illustrates just how upset she was. In addition, the OP was not being reasonable with her by not telling her they could not come due to drinking, by not committing to getting her at any point, by her words of comfort being more about denying anything is going wrong with the NCS completely invalidating and dismissing her DDs experiences and reactions.....naturally causing the DD frustration at not being trusted or listened to. Cue a bit of swearing. Which is MORE than countered by hanging up on her.

YABU

@gregoire
Please do not take my words out of context. The facts I listed were : she was crying down the phone upset. She had no phone signal. She used a staff phone. She has not and is not having a good time.

To hone in on the one subphrase where I said she likely had to jump through hoops to access the staff phone is being deliberately obtuse. I prefaced with “likely” to indicate the sub clause is not one of the facts.

That is how the English language works. I hope I have clarified this for you in future.