To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

@DecomposingComposers

*But that isn't what happened though is it? That isn't how the phone call went.

In the op she says the reasons she gave to her dd as to why she couldn't come home which included not making friends at college and the money spent on the trip.

She then put the phone down and refused any more calls, so not the supportive chat that you would have.*

Like I said if she was rude then I would have reminded her of these things and been less sympathetic. OP said she was rude.

I would create an environment where she can talk to me about missing her friends and her feelings but that doesn't mean I would pander to her acting like it's the end of the world to be there. It just isn't. Like OP, I would have rationalised with her about the reasons she wanted to go in the first place and expected her to be polite and apologetic about the money spent if she was still talking about wanting to come home.

I'm not going to spend my life entertaining bad manners because I'm terrified if I don't my child will kill herself. I'm not going to shield her from experiencing any of the highs or lows of life for that reason either. It's not healthy.

Oh come on, enough now @DecomposingComposers. A 16 year old girl has a bit of a wobble as she's in an unfamiliar place with people she doesn't know and she doesn't have the crutch of her phone/social media. She's then got herself all worked up because she was found having a bit of a cry (suggestion is up to this point she'd just taken herself off to pull herself together in private...maybe she would have done so and carried on if she'd been left to it). She's then had a teenage strop because she isn't getting her own way (and remember she's not been told no, just not right now) and is likely a bit embarrassed. None of this situation reads as major trauma that's going to scar her for life.
OP I hope all is well today, whether that be she's decided to stay or still wants to leave. You've done the right thing and I'm sure you will continue to do so.

Just whiled away my lunch hour reading this pile of crazy

I agree with your post in full Miljah

Bloody resilience - it's just the latest buzzword. It does not alter the fact that this child, who has been uprooted from her home base and then sent off with a gang of strangers to do something she is not interested in doing, is unhappy.

I think resilience, under different names, has always been important -- what's changed is the terminology, and there are now far more differing philosophies on how to inculcate it. It's not all 'send Prince Charles to Gordonstoun to be less wet' now.

And I don't think that protecting your children from strictly temporary inconveniences or thinking it's crucial that they be always entirely thrilled with life are of the utmost importance as parenting priorities go.

Mishappening

I agree.

AE18

There's a time and a place to lecture about money spent or indeed about being rude.

The money has been spent regardless of whether the dd stays or not. If the parents begrudge spending the money then they shouldn't have spent it. I don't agree with their being conditions attached. Fine,if in future she wants to go on another trip then think about whether you can justify loosing the money but not now.

As regards rudeness - when I was nursing I often had to break bad news to relatives. Sometimes they reacted with rudeness or aggression. That was not the time for me to start lecturing them on not swearing or shouting. You just let them rant or swear and concentrated on supporting them. If it was just a case of them being a lout then that's when you spoke to them about it.

Within the context of this situation I think op should have let the rudeness ride. It was more important for her to help her dd through this rather than ramp up the distressing putting the phone down. Why would she do that? She wanted to stop her involvement in the upset didn't she? No matter about the dd being stuck in it because op wasn't allowing her to come home. Surely at the very least op should have had to suck up some of the distress that she was making her dd deal with?

I wouldn't have picked her up last night (and my parents would never in a million years have picked me up, I wouldn't have bothered asking) but if by day 3 she is still not getting any overtures of friendship from this group then I would bail her out, it sounds a bit grim tbh.

Fuck me this thread is a rabbit hole 😂

Bulky for you, NoCauseRebel - it’s not a race for competitive ultra resilience

Bully, not bulky!

It's taken years of learning that it's ok to quit, it's ok to realise you made a mistake, that making the initial choice to do something doesn't mean you are stuck with that choice forever.

@DecomposingComposers makes a great point.

The worst thing everyone seems to want to teach kids is “don’t be a quitter”

Giving up at the first hurdle is ok, and sometimes absolutely necessary. If you can determine there will be more, bigger hurdles ahead and nothing to gain at the end of it. Teaching our children to recognise this, to look forward to see what’s ahead and making the right choice at the right time is far more important (and difficult) than a simple “don’t quit”. Being behind them whatever their choices makes it more likely that they will be able to work with the situation instead of worrying that mum will be disappointed or upset or leave them hanging.

Decomposing,

She CHOSE to go, no one made her. The OP paid for her and supported her in her decision. After a few hours, and having no real idea of what the 5 days would be like, she changed her mind.

She is 16, not 4. Choices have consequences and you should be able to deal with them in an age appropriate manner.

Although I have no doubt, at the moment she spoke to the OP, her daughter was unhappy, this may have been a transient feeling. Sometimes you have to be unhappy, that is real life. Sometimes there are no fairy godmothers to instantly rescue you. Dealing with short term unhappiness is a part of growing up. It really is normal.

It is right (and good parenting) to make children/young adults deal with the consequences of their choices. The time to step in is when the child/young person clearly isn’t dealing with it. You can only judge this over days, not a couple of hours.

@nooboo2 how was she this morning, hopefully feeling a lot better about everything?

I wouldn't have gone and got her last night either. We had similar once when one of ours was younger. No swearing, just very homesick. We really couldn't just go and get her as she was on the Isle of Wight and it was quite late when she phoned, so a whole additional layer of complication with no ferries running. She was fine the next day.

Hoping you are still reading the comments even if it appears the thread has been hijacked

She’s not in danger. I’d leave her at least 2 days.

Yabbers,

I agree that knowing when to quit is an important life skill. To me, it isn’t failing at the first hurdle.

If you bang your head against a brick wall for a while, trying your hardest, it is probably time to quit.

Having one tennis or music lesson and quitting (for instance) is not commendable, if you achieve grade 5 and are still not enjoying it, probably time to quit.

@DecomposingComposers

I honestly don't know how to explain my opinion to you in a way you will understand because in your head this trip = undeniable trauma and I just do not see it that way, and believe it is highly precious and dramatic to do so.

This is absolutely the appropriate time to mention the money spent, because to pick her up without mentioning it is to suggest she can say yes to things she is not willing to try to enjoy or see through without paying any thought to the money someone has spent on her.

If my parents had forked out a load of money on a trip for me and I wanted to moan about it or ask to leave you can be damn sure I would be doing so with my tail between my legs and repeated assurances that I was grateful they had bought it for me. I think gratitude is important. So no, I don't think this is the time to overlook rudeness, because it is a five day fun trip she has not made much effort to enjoy and has not said thank you for despite insisting lots of money was spent on it, not a life sentence to the colonies.

I am just never going to get on board with your suggestion that this is some life ruining event, or that OP is not allowed to act like a parent because of how apparently awful it is.

I wouldn't hang up the phone straight away, no, but if she was shouting abuse at me in those circumstances I would warn her I will end the conversation if she doesn't think about how she is speaking, and if she didn't stop then I would do so.

Lots of people have shit parents.

And lots of people have ended up being really damaged by that. Those who haven’t aren’t any better than those who have, they’ve just had different experiences and influences. Equally, loads of people have had excellent parents but still ended up failing at life. It’s not as straight forward as taking responsibility for your own life.

Recognising the things which caused you problems and what you did to overcome them, isn’t just blaming those things, it is learning from mistakes and moving on.

Giving up at the first hurdle is ok

...if you never want to do anything much in life maybe.

Hardly anything worth doing is effortless, and knowing when to persist is just as important as knowing when to quit.

I want to know what's happening- has OP's (now sober) DH gone to pick up DD or is she alright now??

At least she has got a decent new pair of new trainers out of the trip lol!!

I don't have DC & my family could never afford to send me on residential trips as a kid.

But I think moving far away from your best mates at any age is horrible & OP needs to be a bit more sensitive to that rather than just, oh well you can make new friends to replace them.
I'm sure DD will make new friends but she needs time, it can take months sometimes to find the right people that you click with.

If she chooses not to stay on the NCS trip it's not the end of the world; but she may choose to stay & actually enjoy it.
Who knows. Will we ever find out????

I fully believe the OP knows her daughter, and no-one else on this thread does, and knows what she's able to cope with.
I know if one my children rang me in such a state then there's a reason and he'd have to be collected asap, whereas with my other son I would know it's a momentary wobble and he'd calm down and actually enjoy it after a short time.
I hope, whatever happened, the girl is now happy.

Btw if I swore at my parents I got a slap even as a teenager. My parents would definitely have put the phone down too.

I swore when I was really angry & upset but I knew it wound them up; also it would mean that they would completely ignore anything I was trying to actually say.

I do swear occasionally now but if its ever in front of my dad I can tell he's desperately trying not to slap me & im an adult!

Such a pity that this thread has been hijacked by one poster and her issues.

Have just scrolled through looking for an update today, ironically while cooking a nice dinner for DD who is returning from a trip today!!
FWIW I would have done similar to the OP in terms of not picking up straight away. Obviously the being over the limit is a no-no, so she would have had to wait until morning anyway (evening if my dh as he’d go after work).
Then I would’ve called the camp number to ask to speak to her to see if she wanted to stay or not, or say that dh could come at X o’clock and to call by a certain time if things hadn’t improved.
My DD can also swear and be rude when upset so I can see why you put the phone down after saying what you said.
It was off of the camp to put her with an established group, that was wrong of them and I would ask if, for activities, she could go with a less established group. Prob too late now, but I hope she started enjoying herself.
I have also ‘persuaded’ my DCs to do things I think they’ll enjoy and usually it works out. Only once it didn’t, but that time it was DD’s idea to do it.

This thread is outstanding. Started with some posters saying OP should probably pick up her kid if she's miserable, and has ended with the likes of @DecomposingComposers taking the stance that the camp is unsafe, the daughter has suffered irreparable psychological trauma, and that if you have a drink of an evening while your kids are being looked after by someone else, you're a bad parent who forgets the existence of their kids when they aren't in front of you.

And that's before other posters' insinuations that the daughter is in a cult and OP and her husband are alcoholics!

What an absolute load of nonsense over a very normal situation that parents the world over experience all the time.

This thread is a great example of how in a debate, people are more likely to become entrenched in their views and take extreme positions than those they started with. You see it in other debates too - Brexit is a good example.

The key is recognising when you're actually defending a position you don't really believe in, because you've dug down too deep in an argument. It's very clear that some posters on this thread have found themselves in that position.

She CHOSE to go, no one made her.

Did she? Only op said

We decided to send her on this we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons

That sounds like it was ops decision and the dd agreed to it. Not that dd asked to go.

And no I don't agree that at a time of distress the parents need to be expecting the child to demonstrate gratitude for the money spent on sending them on the trip they are hating.

As regards giving up on things - I see it from a different angle. How can you know whether you will like something unless you try it? If you aren't allowed to give it up unless you've stuck at it for X amount of time then why would you risk trying anything new? If you hate it you are stuck doing it. We had rules that we wouldn't buy equipment unless they enjoyed doing it and were happy to commit to going and it worked really well. In fact I can't recall anything that they did for only a short amount of time.

I'm not encouraging flitting from one thing to the next and refusing to commit but I do think there's advantages in being able to try lots of things to see what you enjoy and like doing. Again, I wish I could have experimented more to find interests that I enjoyed rather than needing to be 100% sure that I would stick at them before I'd even gone to the first session.

And I too hate "resilience". It feels like a modern version of a stiff upper lip. Learn to hide your feelings and emotions.

@larrygrylls

Why waste all that time doing something you don’t love? Why waste years getting to grade 5 only to quit (arguably a harder thing to do)

I always wanted to play the flute. I finally got that chance when I was 14. Immediately hated it. It was uncomfortable, I couldn’t make anywhere near a decent sound, and it didn’t feel right. I tried a few times over the week but it never felt good. Halfway through my second lesson I said to the tutor I just wasn’t getting it. She brought out an oboe and I had a go. It felt better. Didn’t get a great sound out of it but it was passable. Over the week the sound got better, within a year I got to grade 3 level. Loved playing and still do. Imagine if I had wasted that year on the flute, not enjoying it but becoming just ok at it? Wasn’t it better I enjoyed the year learning something I could do better at?

DD spent 6 months attending a club she hated because she didn’t want to quit. We had to drag us all to be there, 3 hours of a Saturday gone. 6 months of missing trips away or being with friends or doing a different club, just because “kids don’t quit” as OH kept telling her. I pointed this out to him and he hasn’t ever said that to her again. She was reluctant to try new stuff just in case she had to keep on with things she hated. We gave her the chance to try different things and after a couple of things she gave up early, we found two clubs she loves.

Failing fast is never a problem, failing to try is a problem. Every different situation with have a different version of “try” might be once, might be a dozen times but the biggest failures are the ones who continue to bang their head against a wall just because “a person should never quit”