To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

@DecomposingComposers

How can you be so positive that old dd is the type who will benefit from being made to stay rather than the type who will be harmed by it?

Because I have a very different way of looking at it than you, and I do think it's appropriate for late teens to have character forming experiences, and some degree of tough love.

Yes there are positives to sticking at it - potential to make friends, gain confidence approaching people etc. But if she doesn't gain any of those things at least she will be learning that her parents can't get her out of every little scrape in life and she shouldn't be rudely demanding they do. Also, that if someone has spent a lot of money to give you an opportunity, you should make the most of it and shouldn't bail straight away essentially wasting that money. If nothing else, that is what she gains.

And unless she has anxiety issues that need addressing anyway or there was an actual safeguarding issue then I don't think a few days of organised fun she's not loving will cause her actual "harm". And if she believes that, then perhaps that is the lesson she needs to learn.

Fuck me there are some precious snowflakes on this thread.

TBH, I’d say that if a sixteen year old was severely traumatised by having to spend five days away from mummy and daddy there were clearly deeper issues at play, and it’s easy to see why the parents would want the child to stick it out.

At nine I moved to a foreign country and was sent to boarding school where they spoke a language which I didn’t speak. So one had a choice. You either learned the language or you didn’t make friends. I am bilingual now. Did I feel the world had ended at the time? Bloody right I did. But what would there have been to achieve if my parents had pandered to my upset and simply brought me up to not have to bother to deal with any change ever? Almost 30 years on I wouldn’t have changed those years for anything. I made some life friendships at that school, with people I am still friends with to this day.

I would sympathise with the sixteen year old who was having a hard time, but like hell would I pander to swearing and tantrums about it.

As for an adult going NC with parents because they dared to send her on a trip at sixteen, that says more about the adult than the parents.

I think the OP has backed away slowly..... given the level of 'crazy' her OP has unleashed!

I do think the amount of SM and 'reality' TV young women now interact with has been a cause of the epidemic of 'anxiety', 'panic attacks' and 'in hysterics' we now see in so many young women today, as they model the behaviour they see in the media.

And yes, am aghast at how many young women we see in a HCP setting who, when faced with a tiny, paediatric cannula become literally hysterical. At 25. I have been doing this 35 years, and it was not A Thing 35 years ago.

I assume that back then we were brought up by war time parents thus had a degree of enforced resilience.

Oh, and no mobiles with which to direct the helicopter containing immediate 'help' to land.....

Good for you for not collecting her, OP. She's had a wobble, got herself all upset at the end of an eventful day and had a cry. I'm glad your OH had a drink - it means you had a perfect excuse to leave it until the morning.

I don't blame you for hanging up once she got abusive after you explained no one could collect her that instant. 16yo can be hard going - it's everything or nothing, all the extremes of emotions. One of mine gets like that, but once she calms down it's fine again. You have my sympathy.

I hope after a good sleep, breakfast and some fun stuff today she's feeling more positive. Let us know how she's getting on.

Goodness - I came looking for an update from the OP. Instead it's all gone batshit.

. I don’t buy your entire story, and i think your whole “I dare say.,” speech regarding safeguarding at the OP’s dds camp was actually extremely goady and unhelpful at the very best.

Sorry, what "I dare say" speech? It wasn't me who raised the issue of safeguarding at the camp, that was another poster saying they couldn't leave her alone due to safeguarding concerns around self harm or running away. Is that what you're talking about? If so, that wasn't me.

As regards my son - I'm sorry but it is completely true. They recruited him 3 weeks before it started. His DBS eventually came through 8 weeks later. They told him that it would be ok for him to go without one. He refused and reported it to the organisation.

My DDS in her 2nd year at university. 2 students killed themselves there last year.

Do you not think it would have been better had they been able to admit they weren't coping and needed to leave rather than feeling, for whatever reason, that they had to tough it out?

Completely agree @NoCauseRebel

@DecomposingComposers

*My DDS in her 2nd year at university. 2 students killed themselves there last year.

Do you not think it would have been better had they been able to admit they weren't coping and needed to leave rather than feeling, for whatever reason, that they had to tough it out?*

There's a big difference between a full time degree that cost a fortune with the threat of failure over you, and five days at a team building exercise you're not keen on.

We can't just cushion our children from any and all normal life experiences because of a suicide statistic, and they will be much less equipped to deal with the stress of higher education and work if they have never been encouraged to overcome a situation they were somewhat uncomfortable with before.

You can't rush and 'rescue' her every time she finds herself in an uncomfortable situation

From what the OP says, it really doesn’t sound like she is in a continuous cycle of rescuing her DD!

There are too many crazy posts to read them all, but @nooboo2 I think you handled it perfectly last night.

The poor girl just wanted a bit of a private sob, I think if she'd been swallowed a bit of time to herself she'd have been right as rain in the morning. Instead she was encouraged to phone home, all be it with the best of intentions.

I wouldn't collect her...and I say that as someone who begged their mother to collect them at the same age, and older, but was told to stick it out. With hindsight my mother was right.

I don’t think it’s helpful for posters to up the ante by implying that this one event will scar her for life
though to be fair, that’s what OP is doing- ie stating it may follow her around at college as she’ll be known as the girl who dropped out of a residential trip...

There's a big difference between a full time degree that cost a fortune with the threat of failure over you, and five days at a team building exercise you're not keen on.

So somewhere between the two is where you would draw the line? Where would that be then?

At the residential the message should be " you need to stick it out, toughen up, learn that we aren't there to rescue you, we've paid good money for this trip, you'll enjoy it if you just stick at it" so when and how do you change those messages so that they realise that it is ok to say this isn't right for me, I can't manage, I need help even though I'm thousand of pounds in debt?

These kids at uni were 19, so 3 years older than the ops dd. How do you transform that message during those 3 years and make sure that they take it in and believe it?

Do you not think it would have been better had they been able to admit they weren't coping and needed to leave rather than feeling, for whatever reason, that they had to tough it out?

How do you know what was going through their minds?

How about all the students you haven't heard about who went on more than "1 trip" and learnt resilience and how to deal with new situations?

How do you know what was going through their minds

Only through the reports from the inquests where states of mind were reported on.

I don't think it's a good thing to teach our children that they have to try to push through distress. It's not the same as letting them give up every time they wings that they don't like something or don't want to go to school on the odd occasion but in the face of real distress then, no, I don't see value in dismissing their feelings and basically exerting your will on them.

Had the girl been say 18, on a trip, she could simply have left couldn't she? No one would be holding an adult against their will (unless they are in prison or sectioned u Der the mental health act). It just would not be ok, and is likely illegal. How is it ok then just 2 years earlier? How comes what parents want over ride what the child wants?

@DecomposingComposers

*So somewhere between the two is where you would draw the line? Where would that be then?

At the residential the message should be " you need to stick it out, toughen up, learn that we aren't there to rescue you, we've paid good money for this trip, you'll enjoy it if you just stick at it" so when and how do you change those messages so that they realise that it is ok to say this isn't right for me, I can't manage, I need help even though I'm thousand of pounds in debt?

These kids at uni were 19, so 3 years older than the ops dd. How do you transform that message during those 3 years and make sure that they take it in and believe it?*

That isn't what I would say to her, I would say something to the effect of "aaw that's a shame honey, I know it can be tough making new friends but just stick at it, you didn't make friends with your old group overnight either it took time, and if you really hate it it's only a few days and we'll have a big cuddle when you get back." And if she was rude and abusive then I would point out that she wanted to go and we have made plans, whilst telling her that talking like that over something like this wasn't on.

I wouldn't need to mention the money aspect because that would already have been enforced by years of teaching them to be grateful and polite when someone buys you a treat or takes you somewhere.

I would continue talking to her about her feelings, ask if anything deeper was bothering her and be sympathetic, I just wouldn't collect her for the reasons she has given.

I think it's very obvious that if your entire life your parents have immediately dropped everything to pick you up every time you turned on the water works, you are not going to be able to cope when that is no longer appropriate or possible.

The uni thing is interesting. As I said earlier, my own parents would not have picked me up in this scenario.

I dropped out of uni because I didn't feel it was for me. The independence that had been fostered in me meant I paid my own way through uni and so made my own decision to drop out. That was 100% my decision and my parents were 100% supportive in that. Emtionally supportive. Logistically, financially etc, it was my responsibility to sort myself out. Again, an approach that worked for me.

Just an example of how it's different strokes for different folks. For me, my parents own approach not to pick me up from trips I didn't enjoy had no bearing on my willingness to try uni or whether or not I felt I had to stay in my degree etc.

Only through the reports from the inquests where states of mind were reported on.

Right. So you're just extrapolating. How do you know they weren't "helicopter parented" in the past and fetched home whenever it got tough? You don't. You're just trying to shoehorn a truly situation into something it doesn't apply to. Disgusting.

How about all the students you haven't heard about who went on more than "1 trip" and learnt resilience and how to deal with new situations?

How about them? Some people survive horrific experiences and come out the other side saying it's made them a stronger person - does that mean is was good that they went through it? I doubt it.

Some adults claim that going to boarding school affected their ability to connect emotionally with people because they had to learn at a young age to shut down their emotions - is that a good thing? Would you say those people were resilient? Do you think that is a positive thing in their lives?

The op seems to have invested so much in this trip - it's the only way dd will make friends, will manage college etc that it's become way too important. Does she even know that the people on the trip will be at college with her dd? We've got lots of colleges and sixth forms in our town - if you went on a residential trip there's only a slight chance that anyone would be at your particular college/school especially as many students travel in from other areas. It seems a strange idea to think there's no other way of dd making friends at college other than this trip.

Bloody resilience - it's just the latest buzzword. It does not alter the fact that this child, who has been uprooted from her home base and then sent off with a gang of strangers to do something she is not interested in doing, is unhappy.

I didn't have the resilience despite them raising me in the way you and others are advocating - tough it out, put up with it etc. That attitude didn't make me resilient and confident. It had the exact opposite effect

Tbf I was completely wrapped in cotton wool and have spent my whole life with crippling anxiety and fear of doing bloody anything so I guess there are always outliers 🤷

AE18

But that isn't what happened though is it? That isn't how the phone call went.

In the op she says the reasons she gave to her dd as to why she couldn't come home which included not making friends at college and the money spent on the trip.

She then put the phone down and refused any more calls, so not the supportive chat that you would have.

SoupDragon

I don't know that the students weren't helicoptered no. Though if they were used to being rescued for the slightest thing why wouldn't they have called for help earlier, if they knew they would be removed from the situation without condemnation? The fact that they had hidden the distress and tried to push through seems to indicate that they at least thought that was what was expected of them.

But no, I don't know for sure. I would just never want my child to feel that alone that they couldn't ask me to bring them home and be sure that it would be ok.

I would talk to the centre leaders and ask if it would be possible for you or your DH could join the activities for the day tomorrow to see if she settled in better.

How to make a complete fool of the girl in one easy lesson. 🙄

All children are different, as are all adults.

Some can tolerate more stress than others; some are gung-ho and unfazed by anything, some are more sensitive.

Children are not horses to be "broken in" - as with toilet training, some are ready for things before others.

Please do not underestimate how hard it is for this young lady to have to deal with being uprooted from all that is familiar to her; and then packed off on her own, unable to contact those peers who are her rock and are keeping her going. Friends are the most important thing to teens - she has just lost all of hers. It must be very painful for her. At least let her return to her family who hopefully are one plank of her foundation in these changing times.