To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

we prefer to take our holidays WITH our kids. Why would I want to go on holiday without them? I actually like my kids

We're discussing children at uni here, as per Decomposing's earlier post. Will you never go away without them? No weekend break in Paris, or anniversary night away in a hotel in north Scotland? What if you want to go away for a summer break and your children aren't interested because they're travelling with their friends instead? No holiday for you?

Your choice to make, but it's an extreme one, and other people aren't bad parents for not doing the same.

What about when your 'kids' don't want to holiday with you, they go off with mates or partners, will you leave the country or stay put 'just in case'

BigSandyBalls2015

But why is drinking the be all and end all to being able to enjoy yourself? Loads of people have a great life without drinking. Not drinking really is not a huge sacrifice to make.

Greg. But students at uni are not in the care of responsible adults are they? You harp on “different scenario” when you are doing the exact same thing with your uni & holidays

Uni students are the responsible adults in charge of themselves. Which is why I think it's an extreme position to say you will never drink (or go on holiday, presumably) in case they happen to call on you for help.

I will keep harping on about your different scenarios because I can't believe you think it's reasonable to compare having a drink on a Thursday night to alcoholism, or that having a drink while your kids are elsewhere in the care of adults is the same as getting drunk while you're the person in charge.

we prefer to take our holidays WITH our kids. Why would I want to go on holiday without them? I actually like my kids.

Because your adult children will, presumably, at some point prefer to holiday alone/with friends or partners? Or do you envisage you all holidaying together forever and ever?

For me, it just sounds like homesickness, all the changes in her life and maybe a clicky group.

I wouldn't go and get her, she needs to work through these things and if you go and get her it'll be bigger and worse next time.

I spent a number of years as a scout leader and really pissed me off when parents told their kids they'd come and get them if they felt homesick, especially the couple who as their son got on the bus said don't worry we'll come and get you if you feel homesick, we managed the first night to keep him happy and stay, hard though it was. but on night 2 there was no consoling him and as he said mum and dad said they'd come. cue one pissed off, set of parents in black tie turning up to collect their son.

Good Luck OP

And as for leaving a sixteen y/o in a room on her own to cry not sure why that's a safeguarding issue, does it show what a world we live in?

The example is extreme but it was IRL. I could have invented a less extreme fake example but chose to share a time when it paid off to have sober adults. Too, does it matter if it’s one drink or ten when both mean you are not able to drive to get your kid in an urgent or emergency situation? The net result is the same regardless of whether you’ve moderately indulged or gotten pissed.

Decomposing - nobody has said that drinking is the 'be all and end all' to enjoying yourself - it's just that some people enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with friends or their partner. That doesn't make them an alcoholic. I have plenty of fun without drinking but sometimes enjoy wine now and then, nothing wrong with that. It's not a question of tee total vs alcoholic ..... there's a lot inbetween!!

We've had holidays with and without our kids from the age of about 3 months. Now 17/18 and love the freedom of a week when we go away, one is off to Africa for a year teaching and then uni. they need to learn independence.

Also, have had some awesome holidays with them, and they've gone away with Scouts/Guides/School/Brownies/Friends without us from an early age as well. all great development.

@DecomposingComposers

drinking isn't that important and also having a drink isn't that important.

But considering most things, have manged 46 years of it not being an issue and yes if the kids are away - we might go away somewhere else, we might go out for a meal.

@AgileLass
Well DUH. Of course at some point they will want to holiday on their own. No probs. You act like we think we will have to be on call 24/7 until the day we die. Not the case. Independence into adulthood is a gradual process. It’s not like their 18th is parent liberation day and that’s it they have to sink or swim with no recourse to their parents if they start to sink.

But again how is that even relevant to having a 16yr old away at camp and deciding to not drink so you are available if needed. 16yr olds are not adults.

The example is extreme but it was IRL. I could have invented a less extreme fake example but chose to share a time when it paid off to have sober adults.

As far as I'm concerned it's always essential to have sober adults in charge of children. Luckily, that's exactly what we had in this situation. OP's child was safely in the care of sober adults.

The fact that OP's partner had had a drink meant that the daughter's preference about being picked up couldn't be accommodated. Her safety wasn't compromised. She wasn't endangered as a result.

So do you see how that's not the same as your experience?

Too, does it matter if it’s one drink or ten when both mean you are not able to drive to get your kid in an urgent or emergency situation? The net result is the same regardless of whether you’ve moderately indulged or gotten pissed.

No, it doesn't. That's not the point though, is it? The point is that you compared OP's partner having a drink on a Thursday to your alcoholic parents, with all the trauma that must have gone with that. I expect you can see how that's an unfair comparison.

Nothing about this thread has suggested OP and her partner couldn't have travelled to their daughter in an emergency. They could have taken a taxi, or called a friend or family member for help. But it was obviously not necessary to do that in this instance, since their daughter was fine.

I wouldn't pick her up at all. I had a fair few experiences like this growing up where I was on a trip I wasn't enjoying because my parents sent me to camp experiences etc but even as a younger child I wouldn't have expected to be picked up, especially if I'd asked to go and money had been spent on it. Looking back, they taught resilience. At this age she needs to be able to cope doing something she's not enjoying for a few days and not video chatting her friends without being "in hysterics".

I wouldn't make a mountain out of a molehill and assume she must be in some danger or being bullied, either, the trip will be safe and it sounds like a textbook case of "people are already with their existing friends and I'm shy". This happens at college as well, like you say.

I would tell her to stick it out and try and strike up a conversation with someone, and if she hates it you'll go out for dinner when she comes back or something, give her something to look forward to.

It’s such a fine balance - encouraging resilience and independence -v- trying to avoid distress.

Not all people behave the same in each situation that resilience and independence is important either. One might be to fly to see a friend on their own but not cope in OPs scenario and another might be fine walking into a group knowing no one but not want to travel on their own.

I had an incredibly sheltered upbringing - never had sleepovers or went on any, no friends other than family visiting and not allowed the freedoms others my age usually had, yet I walked into a large, prestigious hotel age 16 and asked if there were any secretarial jobs going. I was interviewed a week later and started the week after that. I would have hated the camp situation OPs DD is on.

I hope she does settle but if not I’d collect her and use this as an opportunity to gradually try out more things where she doesn’t know people because it’s something we have to be able to do in the workplace or as parents if we choose to have DC. Being uprooted will have made this experience much harder for her but it can be used to work on being more self-sufficient and less reliant on those around her.

I think empathy but calmness and using this as an opportunity to practice in preparation for adulthood is the way to go. Good luck.

YANBU for not collecting her last night.

I don’t think the sort of extreme self-abnegation that’s being suggested by some PPs is healthy, nor does it appropriately model to almost adult or adult children how to balance one’s own needs/desires within relationships.

it's just that some people enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with friends or their partner. That doesn't make them an alcoholic.

Where have I suggested that it makes you an alcoholic? I'm responding to posters telling me to lighten up and enjoy myself by having a drink, or suggesting that my husband and I can't enjoy ourselves if we haven't both had a drink. That's ridiculous.

It doesn't affect us negatively in anyway that one of us is always sober and able to drive. And there's a world of difference between planning for the unforeseen circumstance and being crippled by anxiety. I don't live in fear of something happening. I will plan and prepare as best as I can to prevent things from happening. I don't live in fear of it though.

It's like you see countless threads about people discovering an expired passport the day before a holiday. I check the passports as soon as we book a holiday and keep track of renewal dates. That's not being anxious, that's being prepared.

I need to let DH know that we’re on a soft drinks only the week next year when DS is on a school trip to the America’s.

Seriously stop trying to heap guilt into the OP. How exactly is that helping the situation at all?

And frankly the only way that decomposing’s DSs experience would be helpful is if she named the Centre in question. If you’re that concerned about safeguarding there I’m certain you’ve escalated it to the owners and the council they operate in?

I don’t think the sort of extreme self-abnegation that’s being suggested by some PPs is healthy, nor does it appropriately model to almost adult or adult children how to balance one’s own needs/desires within relationships.

Yes, exactly.

I think people are forgetting that this 16 year old has just finished GCSEs and just been uprooted and moved from her home/her friends. She is already having to engage her 'resilience' IMO. No need to pile it on, by making her stay on a camp (N.B. I left home at 16 and worked full-time 200 miles away from my family)

Where have I suggested that it makes you an alcoholic? I'm responding to posters telling me to lighten up and enjoy myself by having a drink, or suggesting that my husband and I can't enjoy ourselves if we haven't both had a drink. That's ridiculous.

You're turning this around a bit, and it's not fair.

I don't care if you choose to drink or not, and I don't think you need alcohol to have a good time. I very rarely drink myself.

But what you actually said earlier is that a parent having a drink while their kids are aware indicates that they think of their children as 'out of sight, out of mind'. That was a pretty horrible insinuation.
Your view is that it's bad parenting for both parents to have a drink at the same time, even when their kids are safely in the care of another adult.

People are simply responding that while you've chosen the fairly extreme position of ensuring you're constantly available to your children at all times, even when they aren't in your care, it's not irresponsible or bad parenting to not take that position.

I would tell her to stick it out and try and strike up a conversation with someone, and if she hates it you'll go out for dinner when she comes back or something, give her something to look forward to.

Oh yes, a meal out with the parents that have made her unhappy, yep that'll fix it.

If only my parents had promised meal on my return home. It would have made it all so much more bearable (plus would have put back the stone in weight I list due to not eating on the trip because I was so upset).

Gregoire
“The point is that you compared OP's partner having a drink on a Thursday to your alcoholic parents, with all the trauma that must have gone with that. I expect you can see how that's an unfair comparison. ”
I did no such thing. I only stated that was WHY we CHOSE to be sober. I did NOT compare my parents to the OPs partner.

But what you actually said earlier is that a parent having a drink while their kids are aware indicates that they think of their children as 'out of sight, out of mind'. That was a pretty horrible insinuation.
Your view is that it's bad parenting for both parents to have a drink at the same time, even when their kids are safely in the care of another adult.

I think it's bad parenting to purposely put your self in a position of not being able to respond to a situation if your child needs you, yes.

My comment doesn't just relate to the drinking. It's the whole attitude of my child isn't here with me and do I don't need to consider them or be available for them. The entire situation - not being able to drive there, putting the phone down because op didn't like her attitude, refusing to answer the phone when she called back - all tread to me like the op didn't want to deal with it. She wanted the staff to manage it rather than her provide support to her dd, even if all she could give was over the phone.

@DecomposingComposers can you just stop now. It's not your thread.