To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

Yes, let’s piss off every teenage girl at the week by the OP calling and demanding their group be broken up for her DD. You do realise that will definitely scupper all chances of making friends for her DD? It will also get more parents irate that their girls’ request to be grouped together has been overruled by ONE demanding parent. Hardly a good start as a new family in a new area.

@DecomposingComposers it's difficult to read the posts that are actually to do with the thread when you're making the whole thread about you.

OP have you heard from her this morning?

Oh crikey Fairy talk about the flip side. If only we had crystals balls, but we don’t so you try to do the right thing.

Right now OP must be feeling as rotten as a person can and l bet regrets hanging up as much as anyone would once calm is restored.

DD would also do well to reflect that you get more flies with honey than vinegar. There was no way she was getting collected last night. Guilting her sloshed dad wasn’t going to get her home any faster and her sweary response got a hard but not underserved response.

I think those advising to call the organisers today and asking whether a discreet group re-shuffle is possible or having more oversight over her existing group.

I’d try to get her to Day 3 at least. If she’s not feeling better at that point she very likely won’t and that’s when I’d collect.

Decomposing,

She was ‘forced’ to come back to the campfire for safeguarding reasons. The staff came looking for her and made sure she could call home. It is hardly boot camp!

You are projecting a lot, here.

The group she is in sounds wrong. However, OP said all she wants to do is ‘videochat her friends’, which is hardly the point of this kind of thing.

The first response is for OP to have a word about the group and make sure she is put with someone (or a group) who will chat to her (there are loads of empathetic 16 year old girls who are brilliant at that kind of thing and happy to do it).

If they fa to resolve the problem and, after 48 hours, she is still having an awful time, that is the point I would consider collection.

BarbariansMum

But that's because you had positive experiences. I did not get one positive outcome from it.

They couldn't leave a 16 year old alone in the room because of what she might do? It's a camp not a psychiatric hospital. Most adults would get stressed and angry if they asked for a bit of time alone to calm down and the other person didn't back the fuck off.

She's not an adult, though - so the staff have a duty of care to her which they wouldn't to an adult.

She might have tried to leave, she might have had a panic attack. They couldn't have predicted what would happen. It's not unreasonable that the adults in care of a teenager who was upset would decide that it wasn't sensible to leave her alone.

She wasn't forced to join the group activity. She was given the opportunity to call her parent instead. How is that a failing on the part of the camp to offer her appropriate help?

By re-shuffle I mean DD, not the friend group being broken up. That’s a catastrophe waiting to happen.

I went on a trip similar to this many years ago. There was our school, and another school. Some of the girls in the school I was at decided to bully some of the pupils from the other school which was a school from a really poor part of Wales. They were vile, saying stuff like they were too poor to afford sanitary towels, played all kinds of tricks on them, put water in their beds so they couldn't sleep, smashed their make-up, hung bras up in the rooms and laughed, etc. The teachers did nothing. I wanted to go home... I was 16. No one listened and I was told it wasn't possible. I was 16, an adult... how did they have the right to keep me there, somewhere I didn't want to be? So in the night I packed my rucksack and I left. I walked to the nearest town and tried to get back home. Anyway they called the police... I didn't have a mobile phone so I had no idea this had happened. It took me two days to get back and in that time I was reported as a missing person. I also stayed in a really shitty hostel which was the only place I could find that would take cash. I just didn't want to be there, I couldn't stand it any longer.

Anyway my point is, I desperately wanted to come home, I was witnessing some pretty vicious stuff and couldn't stand it any more. The teachers (from the school I was at) were just playing into it. If someone is crying and saying they desperately want to come home I'd respect that.

Off topic (slightly) but in terms of making friends in the new college, I think different people have different ways of doing it.

There are some people who can go into an established group and instantly make new friends. Others are much more 'gradual process' - it happens after a more extended period of being around each other, and acquaintanceship gradually becomes friendship. (It can cause a lot of angst when many people seem to 'friend up' within 24 hours and you don't, but I think sometimes the trick is to remain calm and see how things go.)

So coming home may not really matter in terms of making friends - it may be that dd is more of a take it slowly type anyway.

She was ‘forced’ to come back to the campfire for safeguarding reasons.

But that wasn't doing this great 1-2-1 with a leader support was it? It wasn't doing right by this girl if what she needed was some alone time. Maybe the staff at this camp aren't really so great, as evidenced by the broken promises about groups and not having the foresight to realise that putting one new girl into a group of established friends isn't the best idea.

It sounds like she is safe and the adults are looking after her. They will keep a close eye on her now that they know she is upset and will be trained to deal with situations like this.

Sometimes life is not as easy as we would like. Doesn't sound like the girls are being nasty though and when they are doing activities the girl will start to mix.

DecomposingComposers,
"It was about the message that my parents sent me about what behaviour they disapprove of."

But that wouldn't have come from a one off incident. That would have been theur message as you grew up. That's what has caused your issues.

"My children will always be my priority and they know that."

So you'd drink drive? Teach good boundaries by having some for yourself. One day your DDs may be Mother's (or DSs, Fathers) and choose to do it differently. Be wary of sending out the message that only your way is the right way. There's times when your young Adult/Adult child shouldn't be your priority. It's ok to prioritise yourself at times.

My DDs are all Adults. There does seem to be a rise in uncontrolled, over emotional behaviour in young Women and a hell of a lot of anxiety.

I don't think SM and the type of TV programmes that teens are into help matters. Most of the time they are watching mentally unwell people and mirroring them.

I'm glad by Girls grew up before this.

"I was remembering having appendicitis at boarding school.
And flu.
And breaking my arm in two places.
Parents never showed up."

But that isn't this situation.

Exactly. Which is why I disagree with people saying what's the worst that could happen? Do you think they stayed with her all night then to guard against this? I doubt that they did.

So, if you, as an experienced camp leader, recognise this risk why is it a good idea to force it?

I would be very surprised if the children aren't guarded at night. At my camp, the staff sleep in an adjoining room that you have to travel through to leave the cabins, and there are security staff patrolling the camp all night. Kids aren't allowed to go off on their own at any time, or hang around in unsupervised areas of the camp.

I don't really get your point. Are you saying that OP's daughter should be picked up in case she runs away? If so, I would say that the camp almost certainly has similar safeguarding rules to mine (and if not, that's a different and much bigger issue) to ensure that she can't do so, and that it's much more sensible to rely on the adults at the camp to look after her for one night than to drive drunk to collect her right away.

She might have tried to leave, she might have had a panic attack. They couldn't have predicted what would happen. It's not unreasonable that the adults in care of a teenager who was upset would decide that it wasn't sensible to leave her alone.

Because if that's really what they feared then she must have been pretty distressed. Presumably they stayed with her throughout the night if they feared she might run away or self harm?

Decomposing,

Sadly safeguarding is law and a camp leader could lose their job if they did not adhere to it. She effectively got ‘alone time’ calling home.

The 1-2-1 won’t necessarily be instantaneous, evening number 1. They may, from experience, see how things go for 24-48 hours before instigating it.

@DecomposingComposers of course they would have stayed close to her during the night. On these trips the leaders are not far away. That's normal to comfort an upset child away from home. Doesn't mean she was going to harm herself. They sound like they are doing the right thing.

But that wouldn't have come from a one off incident.
It was my one and only experience of going against what they wanted. The first time that I needed them to be different than what they believed was right. So, yes, for me that 1 time did teach me what to expect from my parents if I disagreed with them.

So you'd drink drive

Nope. We don't both drink at the same time. One of us is always capable of driving if needs be. Drinking isn't compulsory you know. We have always done this since they were babies as my son had fits do we never knew if we might need to make a dash to the hospital.

Because if that's really what they feared then she must have been pretty distressed. Presumably they stayed with her throughout the night if they feared she might run away or self harm?

How could we possibly know? But based on my own experiences I would say it's incredibly unlikely that they have no protective measures in place to guard the children at night. If there are none, I would be concerned about the camp for that reason.

We know she was distressed - OP has already told us that.

I don't know if they genuinely believed she would self-harm or run away. It's very likely they didn't actually think she would do either of those things. But that isn't the point. When you are in charge of other people's children, you have to prepare for and take preventative measures against the worst case scenario. So if a teenager is upset you might think that in likelihood she's just overwhelmed and emotional. But you take steps to prevent the worst case scenario - that she hurts herself - just in case. Because it's no good letting something like that happen and then saying you didn't think it would.

I'm not remotely suggesting there was any likelihood that OP's daughter was considering endangering herself. I'm explaining why staff have to behave as though that could happen, because that's their job. That's why they couldn't leave her alone, even though she would almost certainly have been fine if they had.

I would be very surprised if the children aren't guarded at night. At my camp, the staff sleep in an adjoining room that you have to travel through to leave the cabins, and there are security staff patrolling the camp all night. Kids aren't allowed to go off on their own at any time, or hang around in unsupervised areas of the camp.

Thats unusual. My kids have stayed in hotels where the staff have been spread across different floors or stayed in tents where staff are in their own tent. Kids could easily leave and not be missed until morning.

I think you are describing an entirely different set up.

That is a really excellent post about resilience, @gregoire.

Thank you!

That's why they couldn't leave her alone, even though she would almost certainly have been fine if they had.

Why couldn't they have let her have some alone time in her room whilst they waited near by, if that's what she needed? Why was the only safeguarding option to insist that she attended the campfire?

Nope. We don't both drink at the same time. One of us is always capable of driving if needs be. Drinking isn't compulsory you know. We have always done this since they were babies as my son had fits do we never knew if we might need to make a dash to the hospital

Stop assuming everyone's situation is the same as yours. Unfortunately that was necessary for you, but it's not the case for all people. If a husband and wife can't have a drink together at home when the kids are away, then I don't know when they can.

Again, please explain what positives I got from being made to stick it out and stay on the trip? You a keep saying how positive it will be for this girl if she sticks it out. I did. How did it help me?

With the best will in the world, @DecomposingComposers, you do seem to be taking this thread awfully personally. There are lots of examples here of people who did benefit from sticking out these kinds of experiences.

The OP’s daughter is not you, and does not have your parents, your background or your personality. It does sound as if you're trying to work something out here about your own parents - maybe this thread isn’t the best place to do that.

Thats unusual. My kids have stayed in hotels where the staff have been spread across different floors or stayed in tents where staff are in their own tent. Kids could easily leave and not be missed until morning.

I think you are describing an entirely different set up.

I would be pretty concerned about kids staying in hotels without an adult on the same floor as them. I assume there are security staff, but in general I wouldn't feel comfortable with kids being unsupervised to that degree.

Re tents I don't think an adult needs to be in the same tent, but they should be in the immediate vicinity.

In less safe situations such as those you are describing, if the supervising adults were aware that a child was upset I would expect them to take extra steps to ensure they weren't endangering themselves. Such as, for instance, not leaving them unsupervised while upset. If that involves staying with them all night, it should be done.

We don't know what security arrangements this camp has. If there are none at all, it would be very concerning.

DecomposingComposers, but that was the reason why she couldn't be collected. You'd had the messages off your Parents all your life, one incident might have put it to the test, but it wasn't only one incident that has given you your lifetime issues.

Perhaps you don't like drinking. But personally, when my youngest was 16, i still wouldn't ever have a drink with my Partner in case i had to be on call.

I think your children will grow up and think it's a shame how you've been affected by your issues.