To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

You gain resilience by stickiness out things that are tough (to you, personally)

For some people absolutely. For others this would be the single worst way of trying to teach resilience.

Goodness, there's a lot of hyperbole on this thread.

larrygrylls

But being forced to stick it out doesn't guarantee resilience. Yes, for some they will develop it but others won't.

My parents did what many of you are advocating - they made me stick it out. I stayed. I did the activities. How come then I didn't learn resilience from it, I didn't get these positive outcomes that you all seem so certain will happen is she only sticks out?

I know dor a fact that my own mother wouldn't come and get me.

BUT I really feel for your dd, must be awful. I went on a riding holiday for a week when I was ELEVEN and didnt know any of the others girls, they were all friends and were intent on bullying me. I cried every night but knew there was no point asking my mum to come get me.
Please let your husband go & get her.

Jacques,

Why do you say that?

There is clearly a sliding scale but no one will learn resilience by NEVER having to be resilient, ever. Clearly it should be age (and need) appropriate but there are very few 16 year olds who are going to be mentally damaged by being made to live a few days away from the internet and their friendship group, supervised and encouraged by responsible adults.

I would not make her do the whole 5 days but definitely to give it a proper chance (2-3 days and a couple of nights).

OP I think you’re handling this situation well.

As with anything in life, trying to steer a course down the middle is the important thing. Encourage her to stay as much as possible, go and collect her if she really seems beyond the limit of her coping abilities.

Either way I don’t think it’s helpful for posters to up the ante by implying that this one event will scar her for life - it absolutely won’t - or equating your daughter’s situation too closely with their own. It’s clear that you’re a thoughtful parent trying to do the best for their kid on a number of different fronts. That speaks volumes.

@gregoire I think you're right.

Only the OP knows their 16 year old daughter and what is best for her. Personally I would have left her until this evening and see if she settled. Then speak to her group leaders and her daughter. If she's still upset then discuss picking her up or any other options such as changing groups.

Ok my experience. I was one of those mums who swooped in to rescue my daughter whenever she was upset/distressed.
The result? She is now 25 and incapable of doing anything, fearful and anxious of doing anything new. As someone upthread mentioned she makes an almighty fuss whenever she has an injection.
She phoned me in tears yesterday because her boss had asked her in a perfectly reasonable manner to redo a small piece of her work.
Whose fault is it? Yes mine for being that parent who didn’t let her child tackle things.
Obviously I did it with the best of intentions I wanted her to have a wonderful life, but she has turned into a very unhappy adult despite have more opportunities than 99% of the worlds population

I don't think it would be a case of removing her because she is unhappy but because the organisers don't seem to know what they are doing.

Going nc over guilt tripping is rather extreme and suggests a difficulty being assertive.

Yes, I wonder why? Maybe attempting to assert your feelings growing up only to have them dismissed, ignored or ridden rough shod over teaches you that you aren't worth being listened to, that your feelings don't matter?

@SolitudeAtAltitude

That makes perfect sense to me and is exactly the approach that worked for our children. Knowing that we would keep our word, and proving it to them, gave them the confidence to try.

Why do you say that?

Because every single person is an individual who has their own needs. What might work for one, won’t work for another.

My DD would never have learned resilience from being forced to do things she didn’t want to and “stick it out”. She is, however, very resilient which she’s learned from having parents who listen to her feelings and help her consider how best to manage them.

My parents did exactly the same. I’m incredibly resilient - I was never required to do something I didn’t want/feel comfortable with.

Decomposing,

We don’t know your individual circumstances or what you were made to ‘stick out’. I went to some pretty horrid ‘holiday camps’ as a child, which really did need to be endured, with bullying and where the adults joined in. Not good...

However, these days it is generally not like that. There tend to be 1-2-1s available with the leaders, a ‘buddy’ system if asked for and lots of positive encouragement from the adults.

And again, psychologically. The idea of being listened to and compromise (‘you don’t need to do all of it but do two nights and two full days and see how you feel’) makes the experience a lot easier.

Total toughness is not the answer but nor is instant pandering.

But being forced to stick it out doesn't guarantee resilience. Yes, for some they will develop it but others won't

I don't think PPs are suggesting that this will build resilience in the sense that by the end she will be a massive extrovert with a vast capacity for adventure and total absence of anxiety or fear.

What is actually being suggested is that OP's daughter needs to learn that her feelings can't always be prioritised. In this situation, her desire to come home can't trump the safety of everyone who could be endangered by her father driving after drinking, or the disruption it would cause to the other kids on the camp to have her packing up to leave late at night when they need to sleep.

A really important part of resilience is knowing that every individual is part of our society, and that means you aren't always the person whose needs are at the top of the list. When that happens, you need resilience to cope with discomfort. You need to know that even if you aren't enjoying a situation, you can survive it until it's over.

This isn't about resilience as a positive personal attribute for OP's DD. This is about resilience as a function of learning how to live considerately, to recognise when someone else's needs trump yours, and to be a good citizen.

How I hate all these outward bound courses - it is torture for some young people, including my DD who stuck it out but found cast iron reasons not to do some of the activities - "Well if they think I am going over the edge of a cliff on a rope, they can think again!"

She also hated a PGL holiday but just stuck it out - we thought she had not contacted us because she was having such a good time - in fact it was because she knew she would burst into tears on the phone.

Teenage girls can be really cliquey and bitchy to each other. Your DD is vulnerable because she has been uprooted at a sensitive age, so you need to cut her some slack and rescue her today if need be; and maybe after discussion with those running the group.

My parents moved away at a similar age - it was horrible. I would come home from uni and had no friends to meet up with - they were all about 400 miles away. I felt as if my foundations had slipped.

At some point Decomposing you have to take responsibility for your own life, choices, personality. You can’t blame your parents for everything. Lots of people have shit parents.

"....stay in a cabin and do activities" - sounds like my idea of hell. Poor lass.

However, these days it is generally not like that. There tend to be 1-2-1s available with the leaders, a ‘buddy’ system if asked for and lots of positive encouragement from the adults.

But that doesn't sound like it's on offer here does it? Why is the girl in a group of friends? How did she get separated from the group and no one know? Why did they try to force her to leave the room when she asked for some time to herself? Where is the 1-2-1 with a leader in any of that?

JacquesHammer

I completely agree with you. It's about knowing your child and doing what is best for them - not what you think is best or what's the most convenient for you.

Why did they try to force her to leave the room when she asked for some time to herself?

OP already explained that she couldn't be left alone in the room for safeguarding reasons. Presumably they were worried about what an upset 16yo might do. And to be fair, imagine if she had been left alone and decided to run away, or harm herself. You would all absolutely (and rightly) have blamed the camp for lack of appropriate supervision.

there are very few 16 year olds who are going to be mentally damaged by being made to live a few days away from the internet and their friendship group, supervised and encouraged by responsible adults.

This, exactly this. Bear this in mind whatever you decide to do next. It won’t damage her either way and other opportunities for growth and change will present themselves.

There’s an awful lot of projection on this thread, and it’s really not helpful. Peoples’ personal experiences of being abandoned by parents at riding camp / boarding school / cults etc etc, have little to do with the actual situation OP is dealing with - encouraging a 16 year old to stay a bit longer at a camp she wanted to attend. It’s almost as if these posters are responding to an entirely different post.

At some point Decomposing you have to take responsibility for your own life, choices, personality. You can’t blame your parents for everything. Lots of people have shit parents.

And I have. It doesn't stop the impact of things that happened still affecting my life today. Decisions that I made at 18 are still having an impact now and yes, those decisions were made because of things that my parents did. That is just fact.

Again, please explain what positives I got from being made to stick it out and stay on the trip? You a keep saying how positive it will be for this girl if she sticks it out. I did. How did it help me?

Presumably they were worried about what an upset 16yo might do. And to be fair, imagine if she had been left alone and decided to run away, or harm herself.

Exactly. Which is why I disagree with people saying what's the worst that could happen? Do you think they stayed with her all night then to guard against this? I doubt that they did.

So, if you, as an experienced camp leader, recognise this risk why is it a good idea to force it?

When I was a teenager I went away to summer camp for three weeks. On the first day I was miserable, but we weren’t allowed any phone communication with home. I wrote a letter to my parents telling them that it was terrible, I didn’t know anyone, I didn’t have any friends and I wanted them to come collect me as soon as they received the letter.

When my parents got the letter, my mom wanted to jump straight in the car, but my dad suggested they call the camp director first. They did, and she said she thought I was fine, but got me to speak to them anyway. I apologised for sending the letter, assured them I was having a great time, and I think that was the last they heard from me until they picked me up. I was too busy enjoying myself to write letters.

All I’m saying is, initial impressions or experiences can create an emotional response. It’s okay to encourage your child to see how things go for 24-48 hours. If she’s still miserable, fine, pick her up, but a lot can change in the life of a teenager in a short period of time.

That is a really excellent post about resilience, @gregoire.

They couldn't leave a 16 year old alone in the room because of what she might do? It's a camp not a psychiatric hospital. Most adults would get stressed and angry if they asked for a bit of time alone to calm down and the other person didn't back the fuck off.

Well I cant answer for you Composers but in very similar circumstances to those you describe, what I learnt over a number of residential was this:

• even when something is unpleasant for a few days, I can survive and it will pass
• I can survive without friendship for a few days
• even when you arent making friends as such, there are usually some friendly people around that you can chat to, sit with etc and that will do
• you are never alone with a book.

As a painfully shy and introverted child it was hugely empowering for me to know that I didn't have to limit what I did by only doing things with friends. Obviously I preferred it if I could, esp as making friends was never easy for me, but I'd have missed out on so much if I'd never pushed myself out of my comfort zone.