To refuse to collect my upset DD(16) from the trip?

[nooboo2]

Just finished Y11. She left this morning for Wales on a 5 night trip. It's an organised trip for 15/16/17 years olds (think NCS but this one is specific to kids in my area). They are at an activity centre where they stay in cabins and do activites etc, and after the 5 nights they work on a project together.

We moved straight after GCSE's from 4 hours away, so she's left all of her friends behind. We decided to send her on this as with it being kids from the local area it's likely most will go to the college she's going to, we thought it would be good for her to forge friendships and have some familiar faces to see at college. DD also was keen to go for the same reasons and was quite upbeat this morning as I was driving her to the coach.

We didn't hear from her all day and I was happy with that, thinking she must be having fun and socialising, but then she called at 8pm. She was in tears because they all went to the same school (the staff said they come from all over the area and several different schools) and they were all at a party the night before and that's all they talk about and they aren't interested in her. She just wants to phone and videochat her friends but there's no service there (she called on the activity centre's phone) She begged for DH (I don't drive) to pick her up. I said no for several reasons:

1. She's going to have this issue at college anyway so better to get friendly with a few kids beforehand.

1. She was keen on going on the trip and promised to stick it out.

1. I spent a few hundred quid buying her new gear for the trip, trainers etc. Because she insisted she needed it.

1. The activity centre is 2 hours away on a motorway and DH has had a drink. Like fuck am I letting him drive there in the dark.

I told her to stick it out for the night and if she still feels upset then to call tomorrow. I tried to comfort her but she just demanded so I ended up hanging up. She then rang DH. DH wanted to go and get her because she's been in hysterics, he proceeded to drink loads of water preparing to go. I managed to talk him out of it and DD is blowing up both of our phones.

AIBU to make her stick it out, at least for tonight? The first day was always going to be hard but sitting at home and pining over her friends won't help her settle. And wanting DH to come for her...no fucking way.

It’s been one day when they’ve talked about a party that was the night before. Today they’ll need something new to talk about and a tonne of activities. She should stick it out. It’s not like they’re being mean, they just haven’t included her yet which will change once they start doing activities.

If she enjoyed the day though it would be a shame to go home because she found the first night difficult.

I wouldn't rush down there this morning, I would expect her to at least stick the day out and see how she feels this evening.

You can't rush and 'rescue' her every time she finds herself in an uncomfortable situation, I find the 'poor poppet, she's just a kid' comments slightly silly. She is still young, but unfortunately, we all have to stick some situations out. I was working in an office full time at 16 (a million years ago) and after my first day cried to my mum that I didn't want to go back. She (kindly) made it clear that that wasn't an option, I had made a commitment and had to stick to it for a reasonable amount of time. I know it's not the same thing, but she could easily have said 'there, there dear you don't have to go back to that awful place).

You shouldn't have hung up on her though, you were out of order for that.

I don’t know your parents but it’s perfectly possible they could have seen the difference.

Well I do know them and no, it would have made no difference. And yes you're right. At 18 I didn't have the strength to go NC with my parents. I didn't have the resilience despite them raising me in the way you and others are advocating - tough it out, put up with it etc. That attitude didn't make me resilient and confident. It had the exact opposite effect.

There sure are a lot of folk who need to land their helicopters.

If you swoop in to rescue your little snowflakes at the first sign of a challenge they will never learn how not to melt in their own.

Here is some words of wisdom from Michelle Obama

“Try as we might, there’s only so much we can control,” she went on. “As mothers, we just don’t want anything or anyone to hurt our babies. But life has other plans. Bruised knees, bumpy roads and broken hearts are part of the deal.”
Obama also told Markle that a key part of parenthood is giving your children ample space to discover who they are – without expectation heaped on them. “Motherhood has also taught me that my job is not to bulldoze a path for them in an effort to eliminate all possible adversity,” said the former First Lady and mother of two daughters, Sasha and Malia. “But instead, I need to be a safe and consistent place for them to land when they inevitably fail; and to show them, again and again, how to get up on their own.”

Op you've done the right thing.

OP you know your daughter so YANBU to trust your instincts on this one

And the (more sympathetic) father isn’t?

People are being very harsh. My parents sent me on an exchange when I was 15. I cried first night but it did me good to be away from them with people I didn't know.
I changed schools for college and knew no one. They were all in groups already. I made friends (still friends now) after a while.

She's 16. Not 6. When I was a child they would have come to get me. But not a 2hr drive late at night if I was safe.

And those attempting to guilt you for moving- that's ridiculous. Life happens. You can't make all your decisions around one person who in 2 years time will be off and out the home anyway!
Do people really make all decisions based on their kids? I moved schools 3 times in secondary and it did me no harm at all....

I didn’t suggest you should go no contact, simply take responsibility for your choices and ignore parental naysaying to go to university if you wanted to.

Plenty of people do it. Some women stand up against their whole culture to get an education, not just their family.

It doesn’t sound like you would have been ‘resilient and confident’ whatever your parents had done. That’s fine, not everyone is.

Your children are different people, the may well have stuck our uni even if you had encouraged them not to leave their trips.

Maybe they would have. Or maybe they would have been like me had they been made to tough it out.

What I do know is that us being prepared to bring them home from residential definitely didn't make them not resilient and didn't make them quitters, it didn't loose them friends - none of the potential negative things posters are predicting happened because they came home if they were upset.

If you swoop in to rescue your little snowflakes at the first sign of a challenge they will never learn how not to melt in their own

There is more than one way to teach resilience.

I mean, Michelle Obama is great and all but really...parenting advice?! She’s just a mother - she does it her way, others do it their way. Neither is wrong.

Hope she feels better today when they start doing more activities

People are being very harsh. My parents sent me on an exchange when I was 15. I cried first night but it did me good to be away from them with people I didn't know.

Agreed. I went on a French exchange at 13. The food was a bit rubbish, my exchange was a bit dull, but it was nice to be in Brittany. It was fine.

ignore parental naysaying to go to university if you wanted to

(Or in your case go to uni and leave if you wanted to,)

OP, remember that that the group leader's account of events may not be completely accurate. They had promised to put DD in a group of kids from different schools and did not do this. They won't be wanting a complaint from you, so they will have the incentive to present the events in a very positive light

Fair point- though I would expect their account to be broadly accurate

But instead, I need to be a safe and consistent place for them to land when they inevitably fail; and to show them, again and again, how to get up on their own.”

Completely agree. You need to be the safe space. How has op been that safe space?

Obama also told Markle that a key part of parenthood is giving your children ample space to discover who they are – without expectation heaped on them

Absolutely. This girl has said who she is and her mum has ignored it, instead heaping expectations onto her - the expectation that she'll make friends, enjoy it, only succeed in college if she succeeds here, not waste the ops money.

I agree with that quote. Maybe you could explain how the op has achieved any of it by hanging up and refusing to talk to her dd or how refusing to bring her home will fulfill any of what Michelle Obama said?

It does seem somewhat convenient that the leaders version is that these girls all looked out and included your dd. Especially as the thing you're concerned about is that she was in a group where all but one knew one another and she was supposed to be in a group where people were all not 'together' previously. So I'd be wary about the leaders version of events too.

Most adults would hate to be in this situation but we’re supposed to let a 16 year old just stick it out?

I would pick mine up the next day. Even at 16 I’d want her to know I had her back. I’m 45, it still matters to me that my mum has my back. It’s what has allowed me to take risks, try new things and know that if it goes tits up, she’s there.

Next time it might be a party, where everyone is drinking or taking drugs and she’s in a really uncomfortable situation. Is she more likely or less likely to call home to be picked up?

I didn’t suggest you should go no contact, simply take responsibility for your choices and ignore parental naysaying to go to university if you wanted to.

Going to uni, giving up and then coming back home would not have been an option. They would have made my life unbearable with the guilt tripping so yes it would have meant going NC.

And yes, I am resilient now. I've gone through stuff that is much tougher than a residential trip but it's taken years of undoing what my parents instilled in me. It's taken years of learning that it's ok to quit, it's ok to realise you made a mistake, that making the initial choice to do something doesn't mean you are stuck with that choice forever.

Why isn't it resilient to change your mind and make a success following a different path? Why would the op not learn resilience by coming home, and then starting college and making friends? Why wouldn't that show her that it's ok to change your mind and that things will still work out?

Please explain to me how forcing me to stay for the week achieved anything positive for me? What did I learn from it?

I think there is a whole heap of difference between going somewhere where you don't know anyone - and they don't know anyone either, and going somewhere where only you are the 'stranger' and everyone else is as thick as thieves. 16 year olds are not known for their highly evolved social skills and won't reflect that they need to make an effort to include her

The expression ‘resili Is hard won’ has meaning. It means you don’t become resilient when things are fun and great. You gain resilience by stickiness out things that are tough (to you, personally). For some, that will be a scary activity, for others it will be about surviving with strangers away from your friendship group.

16 and 5 days? I would make her stick it out until day three and then collect her if she is still hating it. My guess is that by then she will be into it and glad she stayed. And, yes, if she is in a group who have all known each other for years, ask for her to be moved to another group.

Yabbers

Absolutely agree with you.

Sounds like you’re trying to control how she should feel about and react to a situation you’ve created in uprooting her. Is this to appease your guilt?

I realise you want it to work out, for her to make friends and feel settled but she has to do it her way. What will you achieve by leaving her there feeling unhappy? I can’t see that she’s suddenly going to feel better about navigating the tricky time starting a new college and getting to grips with new friendships if she can’t trust you to have her back. There’s building resilience and then there’s turning someone’s life upside down and expecting them to crack on without so much as a backward glance.

I think you stand to do long term damage to your relationship if you don’t listen and respond to how she’s feeling. She may well decide at 18 that she’ll learn to manage life without you since being let down and having her feelings dismissed is just too painful.

I had something similar with DS last year, he was 13, doing camp and got homesick as well as a bit poorly.

Obviously I told him I would come and pick him up any time, despite 3hr drive. Just by saying that, he felt he could stay, and ended up wanting to stay.

Having the security net there (my mum will get me any time I really feel unwell/sad/can't cope) meant he COULD cope. Does that make sense?

He ended up staying and feeling proud of himself for sticking it out.

Going to uni, giving up and then coming back home would not have been an option. They would have made my life unbearable with the guilt tripping so yes it would have meant going NC.

If you’re not going to uni you can get a job and leave home, so you’re not stuck with them. You can make it clear that you’re not interested in listening to guilt-tripping and ignore it. Going nc over guilt tripping is rather extreme and suggests a difficulty being assertive.

Why isn't it resilient to change your mind and make a success following a different path?

I didn’t say it wasn’t resilient to change your mind. It takes resilience to take responsibility for your choices and change your mind if you want to and ignore the flak.

To those suggesting that if your child is unhappy with a situation you are obliged to remove them from it - how far does that go?

If they go on holiday with a friend and decide they aren't enjoying themselves, do you pay £300 for them to get an early flight home?

If they phone you up from school in tears at lunchtime because they're having a bad day, do you leave work and collect them? What about if it's happening every day? If you refuse to collect them every time, are you teaching your kid that you don't respect their feelings and can't be relied upon to help them when they are distressed?

I think most of us would agree that there is a scale, with 'tjmes you should definitely get your child' at one end, and 'times you don't need to get your child' at the other.

There are obvious times when a parent should drop everything to get their child. If they're in danger, or there is a medical emergency, you should get them. The poster who mentioned earlier not being collected from a rave is a good example. Why a teen was allowed to go to a rave in an abandoned house in the first place is beyond me, but given the danger of that situation she should absolutely have been picked up.

But there are other times when dropping everything isn't necessary or feasible.

It seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those times. OP's daughter is safe, she's in the care of responsible adults, she hasn't been injured or bullied or threatened. She will have been perfectly safe until this morning. She may still want to come home, in which case fine. She may now feel happy to stay.

She is not going to experience long lasting mental trauma because she had to spend the night on a residential trip. She has learned a valuable lesson - that sometimes, it's not possible for your wants to be met instantly. Sometimes, due to reasons of safety or consideration for others, you have to endure a less than ideal situation for a few hours. That is a good thing for a sixteen year old to know.