To not give birth through the NHS?

[HereOrThereAndAnywhere]

With all the news stories of poor NHS maternity care and not good outcomes, I'm wondering if it would be worth it to give birth in another country. Is that a bad idea? Was your birth experience (if you had one in the last couple years) ok?

For voting purposes

YABU = Maternity care is perfect and there's nothing to worry about
YANBU = Maternity care has really gone downhill so I would try to figure out another way to give birth either privately or abroad

Norway would be great but not sure of the logistics of getting there pregnant and registering as a private patient? Also if you don't know anyone there how would you get a reference for the baby's UK passport to get out?

I've had 3 children in this country and I had positive experiences.

You can have positive and negative in NHS or private healthcare and in this country or others.

You're overthinking it.

I'm in the North West OP. If I ever have another baby I'm now going to be paying for an indy midwife. As 'One to One' midwife services have now gone in to administration I'd rather my son was an 'only' than ever have to use our local NHS maternity services. They are abysmal.

Three DC's, Pre-eclampsia twice so consultant led pregnancies plus a lot of time spent as an impatient on antenatal wards prior to deliveries. I honestly couldn't fault the NHS throughout my pregnancies and always felt in safe hands.

I personally wouldn't go private for maternity care.

Just my opinion though and I know some have less than positive experiences unfortunately.

We just had our 1st child few weeks ago via NHS and our experience was Good. Yes things can be improved but you have to appreciate that the person or persons on the other end who are delivering also ehuman beings and like everything else they are also not perfect. Overall it was a successful result and the aftercare is amazing. If you were to look at real data (not what's on the news and facebook) you will find that bad experiences with NHS are far and few

For those giving dire warning about difficulties travelling while heavily pregnant and afterwards let me share my experiences. I travelled home (5,000 miles) on my own to the UK 3 weeks before expected date of no.1. Natural birth ended up as an emergency C section. Travelled back when baby was 3 weeks old. Two years later I did a repeat only this time with a two year old in tow. Natural birth turned out to be a high forceps delivery (so much worse than a C section) and 3 weeks later I returned to my little Caribbean Island with baby and toddler.
All the travelling was easy because I was prepared and breastfeeding. The care I received was excellent (though I would have preferred a second section).

One DC born in an NHS hospital which has been in the news for poor maternity care and infant deaths.

One DC born in a private EU hospital.

I would choose my NHS birth any day. My birth abroad was adequate in that it was an extremely straightforward labour but the lack of facilities (water birth etc) and lack of pain relief (only epidural, no gas/pethidine) meant that my NHS birth was vastly superior. The care abroad was adequate. The midwife/doctor came when I called the but they certainly weren't with me for the whole thing - thank goodness!! However, the whole thing was extremely over medicalised and there was absolutely no patient voice. You are just viewed as a patient with a problem to be solved rather than a woman giving birth like women have been for centuries. The post natal care was fine, nothing special, but I wanted to get home ASAP so wasn't in hospital more than 24 hours after DS was born - virtually unheard of in this country.

Don't assume the NHS is what you read in the Daily Mail. It is chronically underfunded (vote Tory, get Tory) but the ethos of the NHS is so much more patient focussed than my experience of private healthcare in an EU country.

My SIL had a horrific first birth in an NHS teaching hospital. She was diabetic, the hospital was supposed to specialise in diabetic births, but couldn’t cope at all.

She subsequently went private in an NHS hospital and my PIL also paid for me to have private antenatal care and give birth in a private NHS ward. I genuinely thought this was good value as I had a quiet room to recover and the same consultant for my antenatal care and birth.

Like some OP on this thread, I’m a (theoretically) high-risk pregnancy. I have fertility problems and an undiagnosed autoimmune condition that was treated, by accident, by a fertility clinic. With my DS, I had PROM, an induction, ventouse, forceps and a shoulder dystocia. I’m also way over 35.

If you have good reason to expect a trouble-free birth, it’s probably not worth paying private. Certainly, we didn’t get that much benefit out of the private room because I gave birth at 11:30pm and felt well enough to leave at 7am the next morning. I spent most of the day playing board games while feeding my DS and trying, repeatedly, to check myself out.

I wouldn’t go abroad and I wouldn’t use a non-NHS private hospital (e.g. the Portland). You’re just giving birth - it’s not a hotel - and they don’t have the same medical facilities if something goes wrong.

I can't comment on cost as I was a resident and so went the state route, but I had my twins in Greece 12 years ago. Stayed in a state hospital for 1 month as they wanted to come early. Food pretty decent. Ward with about 4 or 5 beds, I saw patients who'd had hysterectomies and miscarriages go through the same ward. No one really spoke English (my Greek was reasonable but not with medical vocab though). A little TV that was on constantly to Greek soaps. Staff pretty lovely. A lot of Greeks had travelled to Crete specifically to have my consultant as he was very good.

Antenatal care fine, regular appointments etc.

Had a C-section as soon as I hit 8 months, the consultant whipped my upstairs and within about an hour they were out. Epidural fine, no choice for partner to come in but he didn't want to. Babies were healthy but small, the smaller one was transferred to capital city hospital as no NICU where we were. My mother fought for him to stay one night with me first. After care...you absolutely had to have someone with you overnight. I had a catheter for a day, but then my mother and partner took turns to stay with me, on a chair. to help to toilet etc, no nurse help available, and to care for baby. Nurses were good showing my husband what to do, but I don't remember them helping after that. No help with breastfeeding. I had a panic attack when first trying to move after C-section, and again when leaving the hospital after being inside for a while, and they were nice, very matter of fact, but not the 'extra' compassion I feel NHS can provide. All injections etc for babies had to be paid for, and because it's common not to take babies out for 40 days, we paid for paediatrician to come to home to do the first ones.

Don't worry about nationality, they automatically qualify as British citizens through parent's nationality.

Recently had two East European employees give birth in the north of the NHS within a week of each other. One had a complicated pregnancy ending in C-section, the other a straight-forward very large first baby. Both had excellent care, both released after 2 days, very friendly staff.

I wouldn't travel back to Greece if I had more children, although I was very happy with my care, the NHS is amazing here, i think you just have to be vocal about what you would like and do your research.

I actually think this question is very complex. One’s experience of the NHS will depend very much on where you live. We are in London and my antenatal care has been fine, but not brilliant. They are obviously very busy, in part just because everyone London’s population is huge, but also because of the demographic in the catchment area (women having 5, 6, 7 babies as standard). My “36” week scan was casually postponed for a week as they couldn’t fit me in on the originally scheduled date and I still haven’t had it, meaning my last scan was at 20 weeks and the “36” week scan would have happened when I was full term - 37 plus 1.

We went to see a private consultant last week, he did a quick scan and discovered baby was lying breech. At my last antenatal appointment (not scan) the midwife palpated and concluded the baby was head down. I can categorically say he has not changed position since then: she just got it wrong or was guessing; not sure which. I knew where I was feeling the kicks and as the majority seem to be around my bladder, I had worked out he was breech myself!!!

Anyway, this doesn’t fill me with a huge amount of confidence, I’m afraid. I am sure my experience in nhs would have been ok but I bet the post natal ward would be awful. We have decided to have the baby privately and, all being well, I will have an elective C-section.

The NHS is massively over-stretched, particularly in London. I worry about the implications of this: poor monitoring during a natural labour, inability to really provide compassionate care or listen to the wants and needs of birthing mothers. I have heard others say that the quality of the experience depends on time you give birth, who’s on shift etc. I am a self-confessed control freak and I just don’t think leaving these matters to chance would work for me. I want to be a bit more certain and know what to expect.

Ok I'm from the UK but I gave birth abroad (Lebanon) as was an ex pat working abroad at the time. Experience (first child) was a positive one, the level of care & medical standard is so high there that people cone from other countries purely for it. Also baby gets regusyered as an UK citizen birn abroad - you're typically discharged in 2 days with a normal vaginal birth) However, I've heard so many positive things about the NHS here that I wouldn't feel worried personally. I don't think it would be as good as previous but then if you're wanting the best possible experience go private - there's nothing wrong with that. NHS staff are I'm sure incredible in spite of under staffing budget stretches etc (my cousins are NHS docs). One big advantage over NHS is that private can offer a bit of a post-birth surgery (such as lipo) & I regret not choosing that now as I struggled to shift the stubborn areas for years after, suffered some PN depression over it etc. You could do NHS then spend the money on any after work! It's all up to you really! Yes & one negative for abroad is lack of after care - after discharge you're on your own with only 1 or 2 follow up apps 6 weeks - 2 months later. I found it tough breast feeding & my family were all in UK obvs. Good luck x

I gave birth 10 weeks ago today... it was perfect care. My baby was premature and was unwell and ended up in NICU. The care that me and my little girl got was second to none. They did everything that they could to keep me calm in the situation and kept everything safe etc. No complaints from me.

2 babies in UK (one in Kings, London one in Medway) 1st reasonable 2nd nightmare from start to finish. 3rd in France (Caen) brilliant, but I was living there

I had 4 babies through the NHS. All high risk babies. All beautifully healthy. Something to consider is what if you end up with something like GD or pre eclampsia at the end of your pregnancy? I had to go to hospital 2/3 twice a week and I would be very reluctant to leave a hospital that knows me and my babies. To go abroad to a hospital that doesn't. Continuity of care was very important to me.

I am in the North West. If there was any option for a private birth up here I would go for it without hesitation. There isn't. I asked.
I was left for hours in agony with ds, simply because there were no free beds on the labour ward. I know this is the case because the head anaesthetist told me so. He also said that access to an epidural depended on how busy they were and how many were on duty at the time.
We had this conversation because I had an horrific delivery, with many failings in care.
I would rather pay and access guaranteed pain relief

In Ireland so not Nhs based but pros and cons on both. If you go private and have difficulties you could be transferred to public ( Nhs) as better facilities, if you go Semi Private you are not guaranteed same consultant each time.

Lol. Have fun with citizenship you plonker.

Ive had good birth experiences with all 4 of mine. The first I felt I was being a bit rushed to move to the maternity ward, from the labour ward but it was a really really busy night!
An old work colleague had 2 children, one born in an NHS hospital, one in a Canadian hospital. He said he and his wife would opt for Canadian every time.

I gave birth in an NHS hospital and the midwife was great although aftercare was non existent. That could be because I was already a mum and they correctly assumed I knew what to do with my baby. A few years later my friend had the worst experience ever. She came out without her baby. Same hospital, different staff so different experience altogether. My friend had a registrar who was from another country and not properly trained.

Also the midwife visiting services once I got home in Colchester were amazing. In Suffolk i had one midwife aftercare visit. Maybe it was worse as it was so rural

Have given birth in 2 different EU countries, never in UK. Both better rated in terms of risk than the UK.

The first was a normal hospital. A 5 day stay is normal post-birth, 7 days post caesarian. But services were stretched and I was undoubtedly subjected to student nurse procedures and neglected because I was foreign. X 10 for the black woman on the ward with me. I totally regret not paying for a private hospital, which many pregnant women do there at relatively little extra cost. Health consequences are long-term.

The second birth was very well managed with fewer interventions, also a 5 day stay and in a private room. First rate care in all respects, just as it seems to be in all hospital departments subsequently. Nobody seems rushed or stressed.

Given a choice I would never use the NHS. The idea is brilliant in theory but the reality is grim in the wide experience of my English family. Numerous mistakes made, broken implants, joints put in the wrong way, infections that take months and months to diagnose because it's impossible to get even an appointment with a GP, far less with a specialist that can make a diagnosis very quickly.. hours in A & E... I think the people who have aggresively defended the NHS should have higher expectations.

OP, in your case I would opt for a private hospital in the UK. With your own experienced obstetrician with access to anaesthesia so pain relief is assured and a private room post partnum with easy access to midwives. Also no students using your body as a learning tool without any meaningful consent.

My first birth was horrendous on the NHS (Oxford University Hospitals). I was treated horrendously. I was a high risk patient with a heart defect whose labour kept stalling because I was having cardiac symptoms and they just told me “no, that’s just labour for a first time mum”. My daughter was born after 10 days of labour with it stalling, I even made it to the delivery room twice and was then sent home when the labour stalled with my palpitations. On the 10th day my water broke and they then had to induce me as my contractions were irregular. She was born 8 hours (2hrs pushing) after the induction despite irregular contractions and the doctors insisting it would be at least a 24hr labour if not longer because of the contractions.

My second birth at a different hospital as my cardiac consultant refused to allow me to return to Oxford after my first birth (Chelsea Westminster) was under a specialist cardiac OB unit and was wonderful. I was so relaxed and calm, I had an epidural and a spinal due to some initial confusion as to whether I might need a section but I had a consultant who went the whole 9 yards to make sure I didn’t have a section unless strictly necessary, after ensuring I didn’t she broke my waters and I went back to a delivery suite. As the spinal wore off so did the epidural so I wound up feeling the whole lot but on gas and air and still just in the zone. The midwife I had was wonderful I delivered in 8 minutes after a 4hr labour and felt like a rockstar afterwards.

I think it all varies by hospital. There’s probably too much detail their but sharing birth stories is fun. You need to be somewhere you feel safe and cared well for. I wouldn’t want to go to another country personally because not speaking the language would frighten me, so I’d probably try to do private here. But honestly, I think some of it is all down to luck of the draw of who you get on the night.

I gave birth in march 2019 for the second time at the Homerton and me experience was brilliant. Midwives were very attentive and the doctors were amazing. Was discharged 6 hours after having my baby and I was so happy to go home to my DS.

it Probably depends on your local hospital. I have a big tertiary centre will lots of facilities (eg NICU, ICU, new birthing suites) - had good experiences both times.

However a friend who lives close by and went to same hospital had to be induced. She was kept waiting for several days as always another emergency came in front of her case (not immediately urgent but needed to be done soon)... I guess even in the same location experiences vary.

I went back to my home country to have my second after having a terrible experience with my first on the NHS. I don't plan any more children, but if I did, would opt out of the NHS again.