To not give birth through the NHS?

[HereOrThereAndAnywhere]

With all the news stories of poor NHS maternity care and not good outcomes, I'm wondering if it would be worth it to give birth in another country. Is that a bad idea? Was your birth experience (if you had one in the last couple years) ok?

For voting purposes

YABU = Maternity care is perfect and there's nothing to worry about
YANBU = Maternity care has really gone downhill so I would try to figure out another way to give birth either privately or abroad

Why are those the options? Of course it’s not perfect, but I still think it beats trying to rock up and give birth in some random country where, presumably, you don’t normally reside.

The NHS saved mine and my baby’s lives. I can’t fault the care we received.

Yes, there are failings in the system and improvement is needed, starting with decent staffing levels. But I wouldn’t hesitate to use NHS maternity care again. I certainly wouldn’t want to give birth in a foreign country miles from everything familiar. And I’m not sure private care is all it’s cracked up to be, behind the glossy brochures, luxury bedding and room service menus.

I had one OK birth and then not good aftercare. I’ve just had an amazing birth with the most amazing care eg senior midwife coming to consultant appointments which take place at a different site to help me get my point across. Then lots of breast feeding support at home, midwives our daily and offering to return in the afternoon if needed.

Your phrasing of the question options is unreasonable - obviously maternity care isn’t “perfect”, what service is?

I had an NHS birth in 2017 and was very happy with the standard of care. Currently 36 weeks with my second and planning to give birth in the same NHS hospital.

Need to know more about your alternative options really - what other country are you considering giving birth in? What makes you think maternity care is better there? Do you have a right to use their healthcare for free (atpos) or would you be paying privately/through insurance - if so why wouldn’t you just pay privately here? Have you thought about practical things like when you’ll travel there (can you afford to spend weeks there in case you go into labour early?) and getting back - I very much would not fancy a long international journey with a newborn having just given birth.

I would look at giving birth in a private birth centre or hire an independent midwife. With the independent midwife you get brilliant pre and post natal care at home and can then either have a home birth or they can come to hospital with you. It’s not that expensive and they let you pay in instalments.

Must say my family from abroad are always amazed that midwives come out to see you at home in the UK after you've had the baby. Don't get that in Poland or the US, where they're from.

I wouldn't go private. Dr Adam Kay explains in his book that if something goes wrong you go straight to an NHS hospital as private hospitals don't have the facilities to deal with it.

I have no idea how easy it is to give birth in another country but imagine it's tricky!

Dont forget to take out insurance to cover both you and the baby after birth. One thing to pay for a birth, another to cover 2 or 3 months of neonatal care plus your living costs.

Where do you live OP ?- some areas have better provision than others, although even with the best services, things can go awry.

If you're thinking private in the UK - look to spending £10-12k. Although in some areas it will be difficult to find a place to deliver fully private. In London and large cities you should have at least one hospital. I know in our area, although you could arrange private ante natal care, you can't have a private hospital delivery unless you go into London, which is 50 miles away. OK if you're having a planned section, not so good if you're going for a vaginal birth and you go in labour during rush hour. And if things go wrong, you could be back in the NHS anyway. You then have to decide whether or not to continue paying privately for post natal care / support - arguably the dodgy-ist part of the whole maternity service.

Not sure where you would go for maternity care in another country - think of all that travelling for ante natal care and again getting there when in labour -or moving there for last few weeks pregnancy before due date. Heaven only knows how much it would cost. And you would have the same decisions to make vis a vis private / NHS post natal care. If you go aboard you would also have to think about how this could impact on your child's nationality. You wouldn't be able to travel home, until your child had a passport. You could check with the .gov website about registering the birth of children abroad and how to get them a British passport.

Personally I would ask around locally to get views including your GP. and do your research - what type of ante natal care do you want that isn't offered on the NHS, what type of birth would you like. Get yourself informed and don't jump to spending a lot of money which wouldn't necessarily buy you a whole lot more than already offered by the NHS.

YABVU

Ive given birth in other European countries privately and I will give you this advice:

1. If the hospital is private, they will very likely give you unnecessary interventions and IME you are more likely to have a traumatic birth.

1. State healthcare births in the countries I've been in offer much less choice than the NHS in regards to home births or implying you cannot withdraw consent.

1. If you can afford it, for me using private/independent midwives is your best option whether in the U.K. or other European countries.

The NHS isn't perfect but it's better than most options, other than private midwives.

I had 2 complicated pregnancies and had amazing antenatal care from midwives and fetal medicine consultants. I had 2 elective sections, both were wonderful. Postnatal care first time was adequate but not amazing. Second time it was excellent. Once home I was looked after well by the community midwifery team and health visitors. It’s not perfect but certainly more than adequate!

YABU. My NHS care was first rate both times. Don't be a dick.

I was thinking of Greece. I have had paid for surgeries privately in Poland and Greece, the care was amazing and the cost was far less than it would be in the UK.

I live up north, so it would be a really far journey to get to London to just give birth. I'll have to think if there's another way in the UK though. If anyone has any suggestions for locations that are north (like Manchester to Leeds) I would love to hear them. Thanks

In my experience, it's all pretty much fine up to the postnatal part. I'm not planning to have another child because I still have vivid nightmares about lying in my own blood for three nights, being neglected and denied pain relief on the ward. However, if you have a reasonably uncomplicated vaginal birth, a healthy baby and support at home, you'll probably be out within hours.

I've only given birth on the NHS but they saved mine and babies life, the team were fantastic. I think you may get more comfort going private but in an emergency the NHS is best equipt.

I had an exceptional experience in the NHS, in a deprived bit of SE London. Could not fault it. (And we could have gone private, fwiw.)

QuilliamCakespeare

I'm not trying to be a dick, I think the NHS is great, but there have been so many news articles where things have gone wrong because of lack of resource. I don't think it's being a dick to be willing to pay privately rather than further use up overstretched resources?

If you have money to throw at it put it towards postnatal care. I have nothing but praise for the antenatal, labour and postnatal care I had, but many struggle postnatally and if you can pay for support then do it

I live up north, so it would be a really far journey to get to London to just give birth. I'll have to think if there's another way in the UK though

Greece is a lot further away than London.

I had both my children on the NHS and it was fine. I had emergency care after my first and that couldn't be better. I was in HDU and had 1-1 support from a midwife for about 10 hours while I was unwell. The NHS isn't perfect but I felt cared for and safe.

Without the NHS my lovely twins wouldn’t be here, they were fantastic regardless of the maternity ward being full to the rafters. My twins were 2 months premature and very very low birthweight, they had to be transferred to another hospital on the day they were born. I wasn’t able to go with them and the poor lady on the maternity ward was in tears when she explained this to me.

For the sake of my mental health she managed to get me a private room until I was well enough for discharge. The hospital that looked after my twins for the first 5 weeks of their lives were amazing and I couldn’t have more respect for NICU staff - they got us through such a traumatic time.

Every day I got a call from the hospital they were delivered in, telling me they were doing everything they could to bring my twins closer to home. After the aforementioned 5 weeks they got us all back to our town. DD and DS had a 4 month NICU stay all told and the care they received was impeccable.

No it’s not ‘perfect’, yes the system may be stretched, but I am so grateful to live in a country where I got such amazing care and support from 98% of the staff without a frighteningly high bill at the end of it.

If you can afford to go private and it alleviates your stress in some way then maybe look somewhere closer to home? Unless you plan on staying where you choose to give birth for a while? Just thinking from a logistical standpoint, moving with a small baby in tow is no picnic, plus you’re away from any friends/family who could potentially help in those early days.

Also bear in mind that yes, bad things can happen in ANY hospital, but the media doesn’t exactly report on all the successful births and what have you. Rarely do people speak publicly of a straight forward (as straight forward as it can be!) birth story.

Your reason that better cate would come from abroad it unreasonable. There will be private maternity care up north. However if you said the reason was to guarantee your child had EU citizenship then do you research and pay what you can comfortably afford.

Can offer you no information on Poland - other than to say that all the polish mums in our area stay in the UK to deliver rather than go back to Poland.
Greece - things may have changed but I understand maternity care is very regimented, eg you are induced on your due date, husband gets to decide if you can have an epidural (I know this certainly was the case, as a colleague's wife went into early labour on holiday in Greece - he was asked for his permission before they would give her an epidural and he had to kick up a right stink to be allowed in the delivery room with her. ) Don't go there....

Much better to ask where your midwife / GP delivered their babies. To travel too far is making the whole process that much more problematic than it needs to be. There was no private provision when I lived in Leeds, but that was a while back so again things may have changed.