To not give birth through the NHS?

[HereOrThereAndAnywhere]

With all the news stories of poor NHS maternity care and not good outcomes, I'm wondering if it would be worth it to give birth in another country. Is that a bad idea? Was your birth experience (if you had one in the last couple years) ok?

For voting purposes

YABU = Maternity care is perfect and there's nothing to worry about
YANBU = Maternity care has really gone downhill so I would try to figure out another way to give birth either privately or abroad

Off you go then @HereOrThereAndAnywhere

I gave birth in the USA, it was the best birth experience and I would recommend it to anyone. Far far exceeds the NHS

YABU

To be fair I’ve had one private surgery (gynae but not birth related) and 7 in the NHS and the private one was by far the worst. Same surgery but inadequate pain relief in recovery, only surgery where I’ve had infections in my incisions, I ended up discharging myself early as I had better pain relief at home that I take every day than I was getting in the hospital.

Private doesn’t necessarily mean better IME

If the private hospitals had neonatal & high dependency availability & I could have another child, i would go private in a heartbeat

It’s only the Portland which isn’t private care in an NHS hospital and they do have a special care unit although not an intensive care one. Their very sick babies go to UCLH but those needing a bit of extra care go into their own unit. All other private deliveries are in NHS hospitals and the babies are NHS patients

I gave birth on the nhs in the uk (ds) and at a private clinic in Cyprus (dd). The experiences were night and day. In the Uk although I did have a private room do didn't have to endure "the wards" I was basically left on my own (uncomplicated straight forward delivery) and my husband was kicked out about half an hour after I gave birth and then had to wait for visiting hours to come back and see me. I was sent home less than 24 hours after I gave birth. The midwife who delivered me was wonderful, but there were quite a few people in and out of my hospital room and I very much felt like I was at a bus station. They wouldn't give me an epidural even though I begged for it-as the anesthesiologist was busy.
My second birth was so much calmer, my room was beautiful, pediatrician came to check the baby as soon as she was out, and everything just felt more intimate and loving. I had a gorgeous suite with en-suite bathroom, menu to choose my meals, and they let me stay for two nights so I could get into a rhythm with new baby before heading home to my demanding two year old. Husband could have stayed with me (on the massive sofa bed) but obviously had to take care of ds so he came and went as he could.

My NHS care has been absolutely amazing and I couldn't fault it. It's really important you consider the long term affects of having a baby abroad both physically, mentally and the administrative side of it.

It was such an effort to register the birth of my baby in my town, so heaven knows how you would do that and apply for a passport in another country. I would imagine getting an NHS number, red book and any treatment once you return to the UK will be far more complicated.

I wouldn't have been able to fly after 20 weeks due to all my complications, I still can't fly now and my baby is 14 weeks. The thought of being abroad for at least 34 weeks sends a shiver down my spine.

You're worried about the hospital being busy. There is nothing to say that the private hospital won't be as you can't plan when labour will commence.

Please spend time researching as you're very brave to be considering this.

Definitely look at what’s available in your area. The midwife-led units here are beautiful - large rooms that are very homely, no bays, birth pools. If your birth is uncomplicated you can be discharged from there.

Obstetric wards and postnatal wards are where many of the complaints come from. Having a low risk birth on an obstetric ward can mean receiving little attention because many of the women who are there are high risk, emergencies, needing more medical care. If you are high risk then generally the care is very good (with exceptions obviously) but being low risk on an obstetric unit is generally not as good of an experience, depending how busy they are. For this reason I’d really recommend looking at a midwife led unit - personally I couldn’t go to the standalone midwife led unit because I’ve had a c section, but if I had another with no complications I could go to the alongside midwife led unit which is adjacent to an obstetric ward and a NICU (the ideal setting for low risk births IMO).

Postnatal wards are generally the worst part of the experience for most - cramped, under staffed, partners staying overnight in bays so wandering about (or not allowed to stay and both come with issues). It’s worth looking at whether your hospital offers single rooms in postnatal for a fee should you need to stay. Obviously if you have a medical need for a private room then you’ll most likely get one.

Things are changing - our two local hospitals are merging which is causing huge public outcry because they’re closing an A&E. However, the new Maternity unit is going to be incredible (I’ve been involved in the design process) - almost exclusively private rooms throughout, with much better facilities. I’m just sad I’ll be too old to have babies by the time it opens!

1. Grow up with the ridiculous biscuit icon.

1. The NHS is a sacred cow and criticizing it is often seen as strictly not cricket. The truth is it has many wonderful, dedicated staff but is under-resourced, funding is finite and supply infinite, and as a result it's stretched and creaking at the seams. There is one local maternity hospital serving my locality, which is absolutely vast. It's clearly inadequate, and as a result the quality of care does fall short sometimes.

If I'd had the option not to take that risk, I'd not have taken it. But within the UK, I was surprised to find that the only options for giving birth privately were in London.

Do your research very carefully OP, would be my advice. And make sure you're aware of the implications relating to paperwork, registration and citizenship.

Going back to issues with the NHS, it's the third biggest employer in the WORLD after Indian Railways (India's population 1.3 billion) and the Chinese Army (pop. 1.4 billion) - notwithstanding India's GDP is not much more than ours. We are a tiny country of 70+ million people.

Even I can see the sums don't add up, and I'm numerically illiterate.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks - the NHS is also the only complete free at point of sale (with governmentally defined quality standards) healthcare service in the world. Drugs also tend to be cheaper and better quality - My relatives from India often send their prescriptions to me here before visits to India because most medications are a lot cheaper here even on a private prescription.

It’s not point of sale. That’s the entire point. It’s free at the point of delivery.

“issues with the NHS, it's the third biggest employer in the WORLD”
It’s actually 8th biggest employer not 3rd. And you are not looking at its size in context. You need to look at HCP to patient ratios in different countries. It doesn’t matter whether they are bigger than the compass catering company or small than India railroad these are different industries providing less varied and complex services.

I had a baby in a luxurious private portland like hospital overseas, and in an NHS one here. I'd choose the NHS experience every time (although the food was much better at the other one!)

As far as I can find the NHS is the 5th biggest employer in the world and the biggest employer of women in Europe, and one of the biggest employer of women in the world.10p out of every £ the NHS has pays a nurses/midwifes wages

Could you clarify what exactly you'd be expecting during your birth.
My two births at NHS hospitals were very high standard, my first child had to go to ITU wasn't the NHS's fault he was just poorly.
I got a nurse / midwife on the ward when I needed one.
They are busy and yes you have to wait but visiting times are longer now so friends and relatives can help you shower / out of bed etc.
Not sure what exactly you want from your birth? People to wait on you?

What exactly are you worried about?

My birth experience was pretty awful but I know that it was a million times better than giving birth in another country!
We expect far too much of our free NHS - it's free. I would suggest a private Dual or hospital in the UK if you really feel uncomfortable.

I personally wouldn’t want to give birth in another country, however I would prefer to hire an independent midwife if I can when the time comes as I don’t think my local maternity unit would be right for me personally.

My nhs care was just fine right up until post natal ward which was actually hell on earth (there are frequent threads on that topic to corroborate that I'm not the only one who has had the same experience). Nhs care is fine, but I would recommend paying for a private room if it's available after you've had the baby. I certainly wouldn't fancy trekking overseas and then back again with a newborn. Language barrier, insurance issues, travel, would all be less than ideal.

Firstly I don’t work for the NHS and neither does anyone close to me. Secondly you are being unreasonable. The NHS is brilliant - I had a brilliant experience. My child has SEN and if it wasn’t for the NHS staff she would not get the support she needs. I have health issues again they are brilliant. My children have need emergency care. Every time they have been outstanding. Top and bottom of it is nothing is risk free and prefect. You may get the odd grumpy midwife - just call them out “are you having a bad day are you always this grumpy”

The NHS is over stretched and under resourced but the staff turn up each shift (including nights weekends and public holidays) to make us better. And often it’s under appreciated.
If you go into anything in life with the mindset of this is going to go wrong inevitably it will so my advice is believe in yourself and believe in the NHS

I had my daughter at an NHS hospital in the North. My care throughout labour and afterwards was great. I'd give birth there again tomorrow if I could stomach another pregnancy 😂

I’m sure you would get to London quicker than you’ll get to Greece 🙄
I’ve had 3 of my babies in an nhs hospital and received fantastic care, I was quite lucky that I didn’t have any complications and they were straight forward labours but I couldn’t fault anything in the hospital
I was well looked after as was my husband

beware of giving birth abroad, your child would "inherit" British nationality but if they had children abroad your grandchildren would NOT be British