not to tell strangers where I'm from?

[FishCanFly]

I speak with a pretty unfortunate accent and this always prompts random people to ask where i'm from. Thing is - I don't want to say. I don't mind a friendly conversation, but i don't like giving out personal info to people i don't know. AIBU?

There's nothing wrong with your accent... people are probably just interested in you.

Joanna in terms of small talk, I wonder what kind of situations you are in where the done thing is to start on small talk?

You sound lovely; I have a feeling you are not the sort of person who just starts with "where are you from" at the bus stop or whatever.

I can't speak for the non-Brits but as a non-white Brit, I just wanted posters to be aware that "where are you really from" is like shouting "you CAN'T be British, you're not white". I don't want to speak for anyone who has an accent, for example, because that's obviously not my experience.

I definitely prefer to avoid small talk generally, but as I said upthread, I find Londoners generally friendly and there's always outbreaks of conversation, but lots of chat can happen without asking any person-led questions at all.

oh JoannaCuppa

At what point does the person who moved to the UK need to "put up" with aspects of the culture here which may feel uncomfortable/unfamiliar to them? Or should it always be the culture they have moved to which changes to accommodate and avoid offence

You have no idea.

It is precisely because we have come to the UK and are eternally learning about, and adapting to local life, embracing or 'putting up with' (as you like to call it) customs and social expectations, which are new to us that we feel frustrated, sad and uncomfortable about nosy questions from strangers who have zero interest in us other than locating our forrin accent.

You see, JoannaCupp we make a massive effort every day to live in a country where we didn't grow up, which makes some things harder and others much more fun.

The question "where are you from" becomes irrelevant if you have lived in a place for a long time and are unlikely to go back to 'where you're from'. It's utterly tedious but maybe only people who have moved countries are able to relate to that.

This is not about small talk. It never was

Oops, I think I misunderstood then.

Rosa I live in Yorkshire. Everyone here talks to everyone else. If you pass someone you say "hello" or "morning" or whatever. I know it isn't like that in London - my mum gets looked at like she has two heads when she chats away to someone on the Tube

My DP is from London and has lived in the South East all his life. He is AMAZED how different the culture of chatting and asking questions is here. We all know our neighbours and chat to each other. If people here don't like small talk, they are really fighting a losing battle

DP has now got used to yapping to the neighbours in the street and finds it friendly after initially finding it disconcerting.

Anyone who asks "where are you really from" to anyone simply because they aren't white, is a colossal twat of massively racist proportions. People from all over the world have been here generations. They are British. And if you got citizenship last week and have a really strong accent from wherever, you are still British. I don't know many people who don't think that tbh.

Maybe they mean "what is your family's heritage" and are asking in a really bad way? Or maybe they are just racist dicks?

But other stuff such as being interested in others, asking positive questions, making small talk.

Its not exactly positive to be continuously asked "Where are you REALLY from" because "This Town" is obviously an INCORRECT answer.

Small talk doesn't have to involve highlighting someone's foreignness/difference. I suppose a comparable-ish example might be asking someone 'where did you get that red hair - from your mother or your father?' Some people are odd/prejudiced about red hair, and the question ids unnecessary, oddly personal, highlights the person's 'difference' and may (from the person's presumed previous experience) lead to an attack.

Small talk can become quite 'big talk', in terms of the issues it raises, if it focuses on a characteristic of the addressee's which marks them out as different from the general group. There's always something else to make small talk about. How are you managing in this heatwave? What a lovely baby, how old is he/she? Nearly Friday - I hope the rain holds off this weekend. All fine. But 'ah, where's that accent from?' - zoning straight in on a differentiating personal characteristic.

My mum came from another EU country for 6 weeks in 1953 and she was still here when she died in 2016. She never missed an opportunity to tell people where she was from and would often turn the conversation round to talk about her country of origin. She was very keen not to be confused with being English and was, in fact, very anti-English So she was delighted if anyone ever asked her where she was from and, if they didn't, she would tell them anyway.
I find it hard to believe that speaking with a forrin accent in countries other than the UK doesn't get commented on just as much but, as we live in a society with people from so many other countries, it is hard to ignore and would sometimes be quite rude imo
🤷‍♀️

x post. Joanna, I have to say it also seemed to me that you were talking about small talk as being part of your culture you don't want to let go of.

If you mean 'being interested in others', again, there are ways to do this that don't involve highlighting and emphasising difference.

I can completely relate Fish

It's one of those things I suppose, it'll never change and we have to grow a thicker skin.

People in my country of origin are the same though. The y are unable to understand the experiences of immigrants and can sound so clueless.

I feel I have much more in common with people who emigrated to live in another country than with people from my 'home' country who have always lived in the same place or any other people who only ever lived in their country, region or city.

CatteStreet excellent post.

@dexterslockedintheshedagain
Oi! Some of us ARE from Dudley

Or 'putting up with' (as you like to call it)

I put it in inverted commas because I was aware it wasn't a great way to phrase it, but couldn't think of a different way. Hence me saying I had worded it badly.

It isn't very nice when people are genuinely trying to understand, in order to change their behaviour to avoid causing offence, to both patronise others ("Oh Joanna" ) and pick them up on their wording, which they have already indicated they are not happy with it themselves.

I can't imagine how draining it must be, and frankly how brave people must be, to move to a whole new country and make a new life there, learning all the customs and unspoken social rules etc.

With that in mind, unless tone of voice or body language indicates xenophobia, why would someone automatically view a person taking an interest in them as "nosy questions from strangers who have zero interest in us other than locating our forrin accent"

In the culture I live in, which has a lot in common with Irish working class cultural norms, asking people about themselves is an important part of our culture and how we welcome and embrace people. It is seen as rude not to ask questions.

Therefore someone saying we are "nosy.....strangers who have zero interest in us other than locating our forrin accent" actually shows lack of understanding of cultural differences within the UK, is xenophobic towards that culture, and attributing negative connotations to a cultural norm which is meant to include rather than exclude.

I am MASSIVELY offended that my lovely, welcoming community, which takes people as they find them and accepts all who choose to live here - but shows that interest by asking questions - is characterised as "nosy...... strangers who have zero interest in us other than locating our forrin accent".

Does it make you feel good if people attribute negative traits to you on the basis of your accent or the cultural norms of where you originated from? Especially ones which are intended to be positive to others?

"With that in mind, unless tone of voice or body language indicates xenophobia, why would someone automatically view a person taking an interest in them as "nosy questions from strangers who have zero interest in us other than locating our forrin accent""

Of course everyone knows that not everyone is xenophonic. However, do you think I should always take the risk? If I have, say, 2 racist encounters out of 10, should I be quite happy and relaxed next time someone asks me "where are you from"? Should I brace myself? Should I smile and be friendly and wait for the blow to come and congratulate myself if the blow doesn't come? What should I do?

Anyone who asks "where are you really from" to anyone simply because they aren't white, is a colossal twat of massively racist proportions

Can I point out that I said the above?

Re the "small talk re difference" thing, where I live we ask questions to take an interest in everybody. If someone had pink hair, we would compliment them. Same with lovely eyes, beautiful accents etc.

It is NOT meant as a means to marginalize or "other". It is a cultural thing done to include.

But I get it now, really.

I understand completely that being used as a cultural attraction, having a conversation interrupted, being asked in a manner that suggests "what are you doing here" and being moved on from as soon as the question is answered are ALL unacceptable.

I didn't know that it is annoying for people who originated from outside the UK to be asked anything about their origins. Or that we automatically be viewed as doing so for negative reasons.

I didn't realise that there will be no attempt by some people to understand the cultural reasons WHY people in different parts of the UK ask those questions. It will be seen as negative, nosy and intrusive irrespective of the intent of the person asking. It will be seen as "othering" despite the fact that we do it to everyone with a non-local accent, irrespective of origin (as the pp from the North East who lives in Yorkshire pointed out).

So pretty much, it seems that the cultural norms of Yorkshire and Ireland need to change. In case someone moves here from elsewhere in the UK, or from outside the UK, and have a different culture. Because we don't want to offend people or have people think of us as "nosy strangers".

It seems really sad that trying to understand can cause offense. And even more sad that despite the cultural norms re being inclusive being explained, we are still viewed as "nosy strangers" with negative intentions or attitudes towards someone with a non-local accent.

To the PP who said those things - they also said they are constantly learning about social norms in the UK. Does that only apply to the bit of the UK where you live? Do the attempts to explain mean nothing? Your dismissal and negative view of the cultural norms of a different part of your own country is both upsetting and intolerant of difference. Which is ironic.

In the culture I live in, which has a lot in common with Irish working class cultural norms, asking people about themselves is an important part of our culture and how we welcome and embrace people. It is seen as rude not to ask questions.
Again. Depends on context. If its a setting where we are supposed to socialise, you're very welcome to ask me and i will happily tell you. But i particularly said STRANGERS. Not neighbours, not colleagues, not friends of friends or extended families. And yes, somebody particularly taking their time to remind me that i'm not from here and they now need to interrogate me about my birthplace - now that is intrusive and unpleasant.

Joanna, yes, my sister goes to Yorkshire frequently for work.

But neither of us find the nice chatty culture to be intrusive. We’ve not found anyone asking personal questions and I can see you get my point about being British.

I have a feeling the friendliness you describe is not linked to anything that posters find upsetting. You are not the nosy stranger people are describing, I think.

When it’s complete strangers and random situations, no one knows what to expect. Just recently a friend of mine got chatting to some guy in a pub - my friend was on a countryside break. The man kept up a flow of cheery questions, then walked off with the final line “you seem a lovely fella, what a shame you’re black, but at least you’re only here for the weekend”.

That’s why friendliness gets misunderstood and it’s happened to so many of us so many times.

@CatteStreet I actually AM a red head (no idea from where, possibly the milkman ).

I was bullied For it when I was younger, but now when I am asked, if someone asks with a smile, it doesn't bother me at all. They are being friendly and are interested.

"I didn't realise that there will be no attempt by some people to understand the cultural reasons WHY people in different parts of the UK ask those questions. "

I don't think that's what people are saying. There's small talk and there's small talk. There's chatting and exchanging information and pleasantries, and there's prying and othering. It's not the same thing. I think you just need to take it on a case by case basis. Much as everything else in life. Foreigners are not all the same. Conversations are not all the same. "Where are you from" does not always mean the same thing.

Cross posting everywhere

I can’t wait to leave London, but as an example when I meet someone from a place I’d like to live, I don’t ask them a load of questions about the area because...well, it’s not their job to be my information point. If I became friends with them, I might then ask.

“you seem a lovely fella, what a shame you’re black, but at least you’re only here for the weekend”.

WTF!!??

This is what I mean about bracing yourself ...

Never “There's small talk and there's small talk. There's chatting and exchanging information and pleasantries, and there's prying and othering. It's not the same thing. I think you just need to take it on a case by case basis”

This!

Never yes, exactly. My brain shouts “BRACE” in quite a few situations!

Quite frequently you have a nice conversation with a stranger and then at some point they would say something racist, and you feel like you have been deceived, taken for a mug, but this has been a nice person and you can't quite explode, and they didn't mean anything by it, and it was only small talk, relax, etc etc, and you go home and you cry your tears of rage and impotence and there is absolutely bugger all you can do about it.

So basically, please excuse me if I don't play.

Not neighbours, not colleagues, not friends of friends or extended families

Okay. But please remember, if you come to Yorkshire, you will likely be asked. And it is meant as a positive thing.

I can understand the weariness when people have encountered racism or xenophobia in the past. To judge EVERYONE who asks a question, irrespective of their tone and body language, is ironically lumping everyone who asks together as a potential racist.

It is also being intolerant of difference to not appreciate that there are areas in the UK where racism is the last thing on people's minds and it is their cultural politeness which makes them ask.

Of course everyone knows that not everyone is xenophonic. However, do you think I should always take the risk?

I understand the wariness, but the prejudiced assumptions about other people's motivations for asking, despite the cultural reasons being explained on here, are really intolerant.