It is harder to have a family the more intelligent you are?

[TheTribe]

I remember reading that more intelligent women are not having children. Is this choice or not do you think? Should we be encouraging smart people to have children in some way? I saw idiocracy...

www.mic.com/articles/58579/women-without-children-aren-t-selfish-they-re-smart

Why are there so many threads trying to pit women against each other today? Most relating to arguments between mothers/childless/child free women.

Yanbu to start another!

Ffs YABU to start another!

I always remember Lucy Worsley talking about this and getting tore apart for it

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tv-historian-dr-lucy-worsley-i-was-educated-out-of-having-children-7675602.html

“I have been educated out of the natural reproductive function."

It's true that "childfree by choice" women are disproportionately of higher than average intelligence. They're also more likely to never marry than someone of average or below average intelligence. .

Possibly women who are smarter are more likely to have interesting and challenging jobs and higher incomes (note: generally, not always) and may believe they have more to lose by having children. That's speculation though.

They do say that average IQ is now falling in developed countries, which is obviously concerning given the situation we find ourselves in, but I don't think the answer is to encourage people who dont want kids to have them.

I'd imagine it has something to do with the smartest women getting onto difficult career paths that are hard to balance with children.

I dont think less intelligent people having more children is going to lead to idiocracy. Plenty of kids do better than their parents did in school. Instead of encouraging smart women to have more children, we should be aiming for better schools that can nurture children from any background.

DC are super impressed at how many questions I answered tonite on Uni-Challenge. "Einstein worked in the patent office, Sheesh, Everyone knows that!"

That's right. I had kids so they could admire my intellect I've heard of worse reasons.

Actually it takes quite a bit of intelligence to learn to self-sacrifice and compromise with dictating little humans (including future partner and any prospective dysfunctional in-laws). Not everyone can handle the balance forced on women these days, so it takes a very smart woman to figure out how to make it work.

The better educated a woman is the more likely it is that she will have a smaller family. This is due to later marriage and use of effective contraception. Children are also more likely to survive the better educated a woman is. It is a good thing in my opinion, basically education helps to give women control of their fertility and a healthier family.

There's a sci fi story called "The Marching Morons" that you might like.

All around the world educated women have children later and smaller families than uneducated. This isn’t a bad thing.

Why in the world do people think formal education = intelligence? For a lot of people it equals debt and a negative start at life! There are plenty of people out there without formal education who are far more intelligent and financially successful, particularly ones who are entrepreneurial or with technical licensure!

But the question you have actually asked is, is it harder. I'm not aware of any correlation between intelligence and fertility, or intelligence and the ability to find a willing partner.

I think what has made a difference is contraception and the wider variety of work/careers available to women, making it easier to determine what you actually want rather than following a default path.

On the contrary, I believe the more educated & qualified, the easier it is to have a family. As a graduate single woman I am able to support my family without relying on a partner or husband, or the state.

I can pursue my career, raise a happy child, am fulfilled, a good mum and Independant.

Not trying to pit anyone against anyone. Just curious. Also to me it is a shame if a segment of society are not carrying on arguably favourable attributes for any other reason than choice. Choice is a curious thing though and usually influenced by society.

If we don’t increase paternity leave and create a more equal playing field between mums and dads, I think more and more women will opt out of having children.

More intelligent women probably have better careers that they don’t want to throw under the bus.

Choice is a curious thing though and usually influenced by society.

Totally agree.

I like the thread btw op - very interesting!

Not trying to pit anyone against anyone. Just curious. Also to me it is a shame if a segment of society are not carrying on arguably favourable attributes for any other reason than choice. Choice is a curious thing though and usually influenced by society.

How do you know they are favourable traits? For all we know it could be a bunch of people chasing the next rung of success in a career ladder, lapping up the luxury of singledom, and then regretting it all when they get to an age when they are no longer able to reproduce. Why would that indicate intelligence? You could have another woman who sees future for what it is, takes the sacrifice to have a family, but then turns around to run a business. Why is that not more intelligent, since this woman gets everything without regret? I'm not trying to call anyone dumb, but we really need to steer away from this notion that formal education is the end all be all of intelligence. It's not. And it's this line of thinking that pressures people to go to Uni even if they come out with an expensive and useless degree.

Why in the world do people think formal education = intelligence?

Because whether it suits your world view or not, there is a strong correlation between the two. That isn't to say that it always holds true, but at population level it is highly relevant.

All the really smart, well educated women I know (I’m talking very high up Barristers, Solicitors, Consultants etc) either have no children or one and had them much later (early 40’s).

I think it’s a number of things - more intelligent women are likely to have a good career that they are progressing in and might either not want to risk that or not feel they can balance both; they might also feel fulfilled enough by their career not to need children to fill any “gap” in their lives; also more intelligent women may weigh up the pros and cons about having kids a bit more thoughtfully rather than having children “because that’s what you do” or “because everyone else is” so may well decide it’s better for them not to overall.

Because women who have spent more time and money on education and have more 'successful'highly paid careers are less willing to sacrifice that for children. If these women do have children they tend to do it later as well.

I think the only way to change this would be to encourage policies which resulted in men being seen as equal caregivers (e.g. increase take up of shared paternity leave, more men working part time and doing bigger shares of childcare work at home etc) so having children doesnt automatically become a career-breaker for women. If employers were more flexible and men took on more of the caring role then women perhaps wouldn't see it as an either / or choice when it comes to decent career or babies

If you don’t want to have kids it’s not a crime.

I think worldwide, educated women are more likely to have choices about whether to marry and whether to have children. If you can support yourself financially to a good standard of living, you will not feel the same pressure to marry for financial reasons. You are also more likely to actively choose to have or not have children. I know plenty of women who drifted into marriage and having kids.
I think the ideal is for every women to actively choose whether to marry and/or have kids, and for that choice not to be strongly influenced by finances.

I don’t think the correlation between not having children and intelligence is because intelligence makes it more difficult.

I think it’s more that intelligence gives you more choices and makes you question things more.

All the really smart, well educated women I know (I’m talking very high up Barristers, Solicitors, Consultants etc) either have no children or one and had them much later (early 40’s).

I think this is complicated by the fact that it cuts both ways, so women who have a lot of children may find it harder to progress, despite being as intelligent as the very senior ones. If I think about the women I was at college with, it's true that the ones with the senior jobs tend to have two or fewer children, but they weren't necessarily the most intelligent ones.

Im not sure if anyone has ever compared career progression (take earnings as a proxy) vs IQ for men and women. I'd bet that there is a greater correlation for men than for women.