Pissed off at lack of support on family holiday

[Belleende]

Some background. I am the youngest of 4 siblings. We are currently on a family holiday with my parents. I have 2 kids, 4 yo and 20 month old. The rest of the kids are all 10 and older.

Myself and DP have zero family support around, so very rarely go out, and as our 2 are vv early risers never get a lie in. This holiday has been particularly bad with neither of them sleeping well. I have been getting 2 to 4 hours sleep a night, with 2 totally sleepless nights. I have been on my knees.

In the time we have been here my siblings have offered only once to mind the kids so me and DP could go out and even then only after we had put them to bed. We have not been invited to any group activities. No one has even come to the beach with us.

Before my own kids came along I babysat regularly for both my sisters, have supported them unstintingly, dug my eldest sister out of numerous holes (including collecting her kids from the airport this trip just hours after we had arrived).

The final straw came last night when I discovered that everyone has booked a day trip today that is totally not suitable for my two, and it is our last day here.

AIBU to let rip and put a dampener on the last day of the holiday, or do I just quietly withdraw?

OP is your sister a single parent? Could be me going mental here but wondering if that’s a contributing factor

Op it's clear that you had different expectations of this holiday to the rest of your family.
Honestly I get the vibe that you had been going around with a sour face for the last few days if your sister had to ask what was wrong.
1 I'm a bit surprised that with two kids ( one of whom is four so assuming no nappies, bottles etc) that between yourself and you dh both being there full time that you 'were on your knees' maybe your family felt the same.
2 with older kids and in particular teenagers, it was always going to be impossible to select activities that would suit everyone . The beach is lovely for your kids with sandcastles etc but teenagers would very quickly be bored with that. It's seems unfair of you to expect them to accommodate you to spend time with the babies

1. You sound very dismissive of the night off they gave you on their holiday . That's seems unfair.
2. Telling them that cashing in your chips before hand was inappropriate. People save all year for their holidays. I value every single second of mine. Minding my sisters kids for the night on a typical week doesn't bother me in the slightest but It's a completely different proposition when I am on my long awaited much look forward to expensive annual holiday with my kids.

5 saying that they owe you might be true but it doesn't make it fair. When my oldest sister had her kids I was single and fancy free and babysat a lot. I had loads of Free time and no commitments so it was no big deal to watch her tv instead of mine. I stayed over so went to bed at hers at my usual time. Now when I had my kids I could have decided that my sister 'owed' me which technically she did. But I knew that when I asked her to babysit it was harder for her than it was for me. Her kids are teenagers now and do loads of activities including earning swimming etc so when she does babysit for me I know it means loads of organizing on her part. It's simply not the same as it was for me 6 finally I sense you were acting like a Martyr all week if your sister had to ask you a few times what was wrong . It seems to me that be you were determined to feel hard done by. On the last day if you had really wanted to do the activity. You could have done it with your four year old, if your parents in their 80's could Manage it, how bad could it have been.

After all this I'd say your safe enough from
Future holidays as if it was my family no
one would be in a rush to invite you again.

My parents are nearly 80 so not in a position to help

There is so much drip feeding on this thread.

OP how many actual adults that were able to help were there?

Cccameron where did I say I was expecting them to look after my kids every day?
I got that impression from you not being happy with a nights babysitting and your comment 'I intend to be disgraceful, I'm cashing in all my chips which implies that you expected much more than an afternoon with your DP. It sounds like you thought this holiday was going to consist of lots of babysitting from your family and you and your DP getting time alone. I don't understand how you can't accept that babysitting nieces and nephews when you are child free isn't the same as looking after them when you have your own older children to look after and keep happy on holiday.

I agree with Gatoadigrado that you've been inconsistent here.

You said that you didn't expect anyone to do the early mornings and then said you'd offered the teens £20 to do the 7 - 9 morning shift.

Then you said this What I would have really loved was for my kids to have a trip to the beach with their cousins, and a couple of hours in the daytime for myself and my partner to go for a bit of a wander by ourselves. but then said that you only wanted 1 afternoon off - but that sounds like you wanted a couple of hours off every day.

Honestly, it sounds like you just had a shit holiday and nothing really would have made it better for you and we can all relate to that but I think you are blaming your family for not doing what you wanted when you didn't really know what you wanted yourself.

If your parents are 80 and not well enough to look after kids then presumably your siblings had to help them quite a lot on day trips etc.

A holiday with your own kids, helping elderly parents to the beach/on outings, babysitting your sisters kids for an evening - only to come home and get slagged off for not doing enough to help sounds miserable for your sister.

OP how many actual adults that were able to help were there?

This would be interesting to know. You seem to place a lot of emphasis on your sister - who you’ve acknowledged was/is a single parent (whereas you are not) in terms of payback.

I do think they were probably not very thoughtful, but I agree it dies seem you’re setting yourself up in a bit of an unhealthy martyr position and your expectations were a mismatch with everyone else’s.

Is this the first family group holiday since you’ve had children?

For instance, when my DC were the age yours are, we went on holiday with my DPs. On a week’s break they’d babysit for an evening (but wouldn’t do bedtime), they’d play in pool/on beach with DC whilst we were there but not actively parenting e.g. on sun lounger reading a book, ready to take back over if needed, and maybe would take one or other off for an ice cream etc. Otherwise it would be tag team shared care and helpful, but not alone time for me and DH. I didn’t expect that. I think if it’s important to you, you have to be specific - “DH and I would love to go to X sometime this week, without the DC - could you have them one afternoon, please?”

I wouldn't let rip, as I don't think it's ever really conducive to achieving anything.

We have a family holiday planned with inlaws soon. My SIL has a little baby. We'd offer to have her for a night without even thinking tbh. We're taking our puppy and I know they'll offer to have her so DH and I can spend time together too.

Surely that's part and parcel of a family holiday??

Gatoadigrado

"OP what you say about your family is quite inconsistent... one minute they’ve always put your needs at the bottom of the heap and never help you out, yet in a recent post you say you assumed that they’d help because that’s what your family does."

It really isn't. I just haven't needed help til now. When my siblings have needed help, child related or otherwise, we have all pitched in. I had assumed I would be treated similarly, and help would be offered if it was in their gift.

There were four other adults, then my parents, me and my DP. The emphasis is on my sister as she is the one I have helped the most in the past and her two are old enough to be a bit more independent and less demanding. She also knows my kids the best. When we were discussing the holiday she was insistent on the pool to keep the older kids entertained and when I said I was nervous about it, she said she would "mind us". I probably should have probed a bit on exactly what she meant. And yes, I could have been more explicit on exactly what I would have liked them to do to help us. However, the general form in our family is to ask what help is needed, even before someone says they are having a tough time. I totally expected that once I said very clearly that I was having a tough time, the next question would be "what do you need?". I think it was the absence of that question that told me the help I needed they weren't prepared to provide.

My parents weren't really considered either. The day trip on the last day was totally unsuitable for them too. They were invited and declined. To my knowledge, myself and DP were the only family who invited them to anything, we took them to lunch one day and my mum came with us to the beach for a bit. Considering they covered 50% of the cost of the villa I thought was also pretty bad form, but I may not have all the facts there.

Can you not see, at no point did you ask for help.....
You hinted...
You offered the teens money.
But you never actually said I need some free time can you please have children for two hours?

As a mum of children age 10+ I’m just starting to enjoy doing more ‘grown up’ things again when I’m out after long years of young child based ones.

Mine still demand plenty of attention and I’m not sure I’d then want to do lots of baby care or miss trips to more grown up places because there’s a family with smaller children with us.

I’d enjoy the evening getting together after the day stuff but wouldn’t want to do what I’ve had to do with mine for years.

However if you’ve been struggling you should have asked. It might not occurred to anyone if you look like you’re managing if they are distracted by their own children and partners.

On the other hand - I know how frustrating it is to watch everyone else seem care free while you’re tired and exhausted and want a break. I’ve been there!

I think your parents are the ones who’ve been short changed here seeing as they paid 50% of the cost of the villa for a holiday for you, your dp, 4 other adults plus assorted teenagers and kids

Belleende, I think people have asked this in a lot of different ways and if you answered it people might understand the situation better

Why when there were 2 parents were you only getting 2-3 hours sleep a night?

Without some explanation of that it sounds like your OH was not pulling his weight. To then expect your sister who is single-handedly looking after her own children (they do still need looking after) seems unfair.

You and your OH had effectively half of a baby and half of a child who is of reception year age. Your sister had 2 older kids. Did you offer to give her time off too? I don't think her workload was obviously any less than yours. It was nice of you to pick up her kids from the airport. It sounds like she appreciated that. She looked after your kids one night (whilst they didn't wake up, she was willing to do so even if they did so it IS an imposition and again very unfair of you to minimize her support).

@contrary13

I just don't understand: why did you drink coke you didn't want and let your dc eat greasy food you didn't want them eating? And why on earth didn't you take your dc to the beach you could see from the window? I would've have been out the door with a cheery 'See you later'.

That’s a fair point from 73. Given that your children were not settling and keeping you and your dh up multiple times, it must have been pure luck that they were absolutely fine when your sister babysat. You presumably expected them to wake up a lot and be generally whingy and hard work but your sister still babysat to give you an evening out

I have two teenagers. They're massively involved in our family life. But I wouldn't expect them to babysit nephews and nieces on holiday. Their enjoyment would trump my siblings I'm afraid, who chose to take two very young DC on holiday, presumably without any prior discussion of expectations.

I don't think there's any suggestion of having the teenagers as some sort of on-site childcare facility! Would it have killed them to watch the little ones for an afternoon so that OP and her husband could have a bit of a break?

Teenagers being left in charge of a 4 year old and a 20 month old in an unfamiliar holiday house with a pool? Plus both kids being tired and Whiny?
I think it’s not only an unfair expectation but also pretty irresponsible

This is a very different situation from the normal chipping in as part of daily life in your own home. And even in normal daily life, while I would expect kids to help out with things like clearing the table and loading the dishwasher, I think minding younger siblings takes it to a different level. It’s not fair to expect that

Of course if older children choose to play with younger ones and it keeps them happily occupied then that’s a bonus. But not something they should feel obliged to do

Would it have killed them to watch the little ones for an afternoon so that OP and her husband could have a bit of a break?

Depending on the teen, it's really not a good idea.

I wouldn't spend a minute of my holiday looking after someone else's children.

Well aren't you a peach, @Skittlenommer. Just another example of the milk of human kindness flowing through MN.

I bet you’re underestimating how much hard work the older cousins still are for their parents - perhaps you’re not but I very often hear/read parents of young children implying this, when really it’s just a different kind of hard.

I’m surprised by all the people here who don’t think the adult siblings who had children and babysitting first should reciprocate when the time comes, though. In a way I’m in your sister’s position - I’m a single parent of 7 and 1yo, my sibling doesn’t have kids yet, but I fully expect to help out when she does, even though she’ll likely have an involved partner. Partly because actually I like small children, and partly because she’s my sister and I love her and I expect I’ll want to help her. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Some parents just don’t like kids very much, other than their own, I think (I also assume this underpins the ‘I’m not going to help out with my grandchildren, I’ll have earned my rest’ attitude some express, which I also don’t really understand).
I don’t think it’s sensible or kind to be keeping score, but I do think siblings who have benefited from family babysitting should do the same when they can. I really hope I won’t change my mind when I actually am in this position.

If I’m honest I’m struggling to understand how you feel so done in, because I don’t really think you’re in ‘two under two’ territory or similar, but I guess we all find different parts of parenting hard. I’ve found the school years definitely the trickiest so far, but I know lots of people find 4-10 a bit of a sweet spot, so I get that it’s all variable.

You know what? I’d expect my 16 year old to join in as part of the family in holiday just as much As I do at home. We’re not talking heavy duty child care here! Just stuff like taking the children for a walk so their parents can finish their meal in peace. Offering to walk round with the pushchair to get the baby to sleep. Playing with the 4 year old in the pool for half an hour. You know- the sort of thing kind people do for each other.

I completely agree, @BertrandRussell - just the decent thing to do, surely. All of these people who consider "my holiday" some unbreachable retreat!

Oh - I wonder also how much you were trying to help your part of the family fit in with the rest? I wasn’t there so I don’t know, but I think sometimes families with young children can be incredibly inflexible in a way which makes it hard for everyone in those family holiday situations - thinking about families who insist on keeping to a non-holiday schedule of teatime at 5o’c, bath and bed at 6, silence thereafter etc etc. This may totally not be you, but the fact that for the day trip you couldn’t just pop the little one in a sling and go along, expectations suitably adjusted, and you also couldn’t just leave the children with their father while you went, does make me wonder.

Omafiet you’ve obviously missed the posts where the OP admitted that the teenagers played in the pool (presumably with her kids in there too- unless she deemed it an ‘unsuitable’ activity for them which is hardly the teens fault) and she also had an evening out until midnight while her sister babysat. That sounds absolutely like normal
Family dynamics.

It’s clear the OP expected something much more than this - ‘cashing in my chips’ - plus she seems to have a martyr attitude - eg complaining about the others going on an outing to somewhere she desperately wanted to visit, yet not being prepared to use a sling or backpack to make it suitable for the toddler, or to leave her dp with their kids while she visited this place!

She really sounds hard work and determined to find reasons to feel hard done by

Sorry I had posted the sleep stuff on a post that didn't go up. Me and DP were in a room overlooking the pool, the baby was in a cot beside us, and other daughter in a room just off ours.

At home they both pretty much sleep through, but do get up hideously early, so we expected that.

The baby however really did not like the travel cot. She tended to wake around midnight and stay awake for quite a while. This would then wake the other one. And it would cycle like that until 5am ish which was wake up time for them. There was nowhere in the villa to take the kids without disturbing other people, so if one was awake, we were pretty much all awake.

This was made worse by the first night when I stayed up for my sister's kids, another night when a neighbouring villa had a noisy party and a gigantic and very noisy beetle got into my daughter's room and freaked us both out (I got zero sleep that night).

I also hadn't factored in that at the villa looking after them was a 2 person job at all times. With the pool, and railings&bannisters wide enough for them to fall through all over the villa, they needed one adult each to keep an eye all the time, so me and DP couldn't take shifts really. I would not go back to a similar environment whilst they are small, it's just too hard.