Pissed off at lack of support on family holiday

[Belleende]

Some background. I am the youngest of 4 siblings. We are currently on a family holiday with my parents. I have 2 kids, 4 yo and 20 month old. The rest of the kids are all 10 and older.

Myself and DP have zero family support around, so very rarely go out, and as our 2 are vv early risers never get a lie in. This holiday has been particularly bad with neither of them sleeping well. I have been getting 2 to 4 hours sleep a night, with 2 totally sleepless nights. I have been on my knees.

In the time we have been here my siblings have offered only once to mind the kids so me and DP could go out and even then only after we had put them to bed. We have not been invited to any group activities. No one has even come to the beach with us.

Before my own kids came along I babysat regularly for both my sisters, have supported them unstintingly, dug my eldest sister out of numerous holes (including collecting her kids from the airport this trip just hours after we had arrived).

The final straw came last night when I discovered that everyone has booked a day trip today that is totally not suitable for my two, and it is our last day here.

AIBU to let rip and put a dampener on the last day of the holiday, or do I just quietly withdraw?

Regardless of the OP I do think on a family holiday with 8 other adults and some teenagers it is reasonable to expect a bit of help. I just can’t imagine seeing someone I love struggling and thinking “oh well, i’ve done my bit with small childen- tough luck her” even if I did think her partner was an arse. In fact, especially if I thought her partner was an arse.

And as for all this stuff about teenagers not being expected to do anything - presumably those posts are from people who will also moN about their teenagers not emptying the dishwasher or putting their rubbish in the bin.

'I don't know if it's new, but there is definitively a trend of parents expecting to have "their evenings for themselves", "weekends away from the kids", "nights out with their partner", "child-free holiday", me-time, grown-up time and the list goes on.'

I agree with this. I've seen a couple of astoundingly entitled OPs on here (not talking about this thread) where there has clearly been an expectation of family childcare on tap. I've never understood this attitude. When we've been to stay with relatives who had their children significantly before us, we're happy to let them interact and do activities together as it comes up naturally (going on a walk with great-aunt/baking with aunt/playing football with uncle, etc), but we've never felt entitled to 'a break'. We now have a teen, a pre-teen and a pre-schooler and of course we ask the older two to keep an eye on dd for a few minutes while we do some job or other, but we wouldn't dream of dumping babysitting or proper childcare on them (unless agreed and, perhaps, paid for or done in return for some other favour, when they are a bit older - not quite old enough yet), and I can tell you we would be most put out if we went on holiday with friends or family with younger dc and it emerged there was an expectation that they (or we) look after said children. Mucking in for a few minutes, fine. Being used so the parents can 'have a break', not fine.

OP, if you made it clear this is what you were after, you have your answer as to what is going on now. It may not be particularly nice, but if I were your sister I would be looking very differently right now at all the help you've given her in the past, neither would I be accepting any more.

I just can’t imagine seeing someone I love struggling and thinking “oh well, i’ve done my bit with small childen- tough luck her” even if I did think her partner was an arse. In fact, especially if I thought her partner was an arse.

You might if she wasn’t seeing that her arse partner should be stepping in. Or if their young children routines/waking were really intruding on your own children’s family time or ability to go to the fun beach. You might leave her to it.

Regardless of the OP I do think on a family holiday with 8 other adults and some teenagers it is reasonable to expect a bit of help
Why? I really don't get it. They did their time with holidays that were not so relaxing with little ones. I remember the first holiday when my children were old enough not to be watched every second. I remember the utter feeling of freedom and contentment. I had to wait 10 years for this. I never once before considered that others should step-in because I had a right to it earlier.

I don't know if it's new, but there is definitively a trend of parents expecting to have "their evenings for themselves", "weekends away from the kids", "nights out with their partner", "child-free holiday", me-time, grown-up time and the list goes on.

I think this is true. DH and I have been asked to have a relative's Young children overnight so they can have some "child free time". Children that we actually don't see all that often, live a distance away and have only been to our house once. We can't go there overnight because I have my own child to think of, cat sitter to organise...

I'm not saying no to be awkward or unkind, but we work, our weekends are our downtime and I'm a mother 24/7 myself (although granted my kid is older).

It sounds to me like the OP wanted time off away from her children and her family couldn't offer that. I also think her family mucked in and played with her kids, just didn't take over full responsibility.

But you can't really say 'regardless of the OP' without knowing. She's said that the teenagers amused her children in the pool and the adults babysat so she could have time alone with her dh.

What she has not said is how she and dh organise the childcare. For example, based on the OP, if that was me and my dh I would say sod the day out, I am knackered. DH would look after the dc whilst I caught up on sleep, then I would look after them whilst he caught up on sleep. And whilst we were at it, I would take the opportunity to put the kids down for a nap in the afternoon so that we could all be rested and recharged ready for a lovely evening with the rest of the family when they returned from their trip.

It's impossible to say without any more info from OP.

“But you can't really say 'regardless of the OP' without knowing.“

This thread is full of people saying that, whatever the circumstances, families shouldn’t expect any help from each other.

I think they are being unfair and should offer to help more or at least spend more time with you, but I don't get how you either have to miss the trip or having so little sleep. You are here with your husband, so you can and should be alternating the nights, the lie ins etc, and both of you take it in turns to have both children so the other can have a lie in.

This question has been asked several times and you haven't answered it - is your husband pulling his weight in this holiday?

This thread is full of people saying that, whatever the circumstances, families shouldn’t expect any help from each other.

That's not how I read it. Compared to my family, this family actually gave loads of help. They just did not match up to the OP's seemingly quite high expectations - I think people are saying it's other's holidays too and you can't expect everything to revolve around you.

This question has been asked several times and you haven't answered it - is your husband pulling his weight in this holiday?

I wonder if the lack of answer tells us the answer?

I'm on the last day of a family holiday now with 9 family members 2 other kids with one being 1 and our 2 year old and have not only helped with the other kids but everyone has helped. Older grandparents and aunts and uncles. Everyone is happy to help. We don't get out much but got out with my sil and her boyfriend for an evening for a couple of hours. I got a lie in on the beach with my aunt and sil no kids as they went on a pirate adventure with other family members. It's hard for us as we don't live near family to get out so my in laws kept asking us if we wanted to go out and are always happy to watch our ds when we come to visit. We're actually moving back home to be closer to family and have that support. Our family is all about family.

Op you are not bu voice your concerns later.

repeats a family pattern of me and my needs always coming last

I think this is the crux of it, perhaps coupled with an issue to do with your DH and childcare.

I do know what you mean about wanting your dcs to be entertained slightly by cousins. I perhaps think the age gaps are too high?

My dsis lives abroad and visited the U.K. every year each summer with her dcs. They'd stay at my parents house, I would take that time to visit for a few weeks too. Me and Dsis would pay for food etc and all muck in cooking.
My dcs would spend most of the day playing around in the garden and in the nearby woods with the older ones. Oldest would have been about 12 when my youngest was 2. One of my sisters dcs used to make small treasure hunts for them. She would have been about 10.
We would all go out on nice days and again they would all hang out together.

No-one 'babysat'. I was always there to sort food, drink, nappies, cut and bruises etc. However it did mean that me, dsis and mum would spend lots of afternoons watching them drinking tea, wine and catching up with gossip. It was bliss.

I think OP might have been hoping for this more relaxed arrangement and it hasn't worked out. I'm sorry OP.
My 2 used to get up every morning to start the day at 5am. It was hell. Me and DH took it in turns to get up. One winter we'd all been really sick except the youngest child who was still getting up at 5am and somehow one of us had to get up and be human. I remember one dark morning me and d actually wept on each other in the kitchen because we were so utterly exhausted and strung out. We just couldnt see the end.
At around 6 and 4 things began to get better.

Now there both teens and I rarely see them before midday (which brings its own problems when stuff needs doing! )

I think Millicent... your description sounds lovely but only works if the adults actually want and enjoy to be in each other’s company. If you want trips out to entertain, trouble starts because of age gaps between children. Also if the older kids have never spent time socialising with younger kids they don’t even know how to let alone want to.

Your comment I made it v clear before we went away that I was cashing in my chips actually makes you sound quite unpleasant. When I was young and single I took my niece on lots of holidays and day trips, had her overnight at weekends. I wouldn't expect that it now meant my sister should pay this back and have mine, especially now she has more children. It sounds like everything they have done for you is not good enough. They babysat for you for a night but you moan you had to put the kids to bed first (completely normal btw). They invite you to the beach but you moan that the beach isn't suitable. It's no wonder that they have stopped asking you. Remember it is their holiday too. They shouldn't have to spend it looking after your children. They have their own children and with their ages being so different they are going to need a different type of holiday to you. I also don't understand why, when you have a DH there, you aren't taking it in turns to watch the kids so you can catch up on a bit of sleep. Is he actually helping you at all?

OP is not coming back to clarify anything. So I guess we'll never know - it's just one of those threads.

This is why we would never have our main summer holiday with anyone else. We are through this very hard stage ourselves and found it tough. The thought of going back to it in our precious summer holiday makes me wasn’t to cry frankly. Hope you aren’t huffing about and ruining the mood.

You’re expecting people to behave in the same way as you? That’s a bit odd. We are all different. People can’t kind read. Perhaps you and partner look like you’re coping admirably and don’t need support. I think I would have set expectations at beginning of hols rather than get cross that people don’t realise what you need without you actually articulating to them.

You've not answered the questions that would allow us to understand your situation.
For example if they didn't state before hand that they were going to help I wouldn't have assumed so.
It sounds more like you've come to the reality of what holidays are like without freedom due to having little ones.
Also you haven't mentioned even bringing up any suggestions to your family of days out you can do together.
It sounds like next time you need to book a holiday based around your family, we all learn from our mistakes.
On a final note sleep deprivation is horrible so that would probably explain most of your annoyances.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable tbh. Your family has watched your kids 1x during this holiday so you and do can go out, but you have watched their kids exactly zero times. Kids over age 10 can be more exhausting than little kids on holiday not to mention more demanding about food, activities, treats, etc. At least a 20 mo old and 4 yr old will just tag along with you and you decide the itinerary. I don’t get the whole “they haven’t invited us” thing. Every family holiday I’ve been on has been just everyone chatting what they plan to do and it’s understood that anyone interested can go too..sort of an open invitation. As for the place that isn’t buggy friendly...so what? Put the 20mo old in a baby carrier and the 4 yr old can walk. I took mine through Alhambra at that age and yeah, because 4yr olds can’t walk as far in Spanish heat we only got to see a quarter of it but that was fine because the slow pace and her wonder actually made us enjoy and really appreciate the parts we did see.

I agree that sometimes you need to ask for what you want, not expect other people to read your mind.

When DC were little we went to stay with older family members who live in the centre of a very buzzy little city. They had raised their own large family and were now very vocal about how much they missed having little kids around so DH and I had expected them to offer to baby sit in one night so we could go out for dinner and a drink one night but they didn’t. Instead we had lovely family evenings in drinking and eating and chatting. Eventually, after 3/4 nights of this I got up the courage to mention to my aunt that I wondered if they would mind listening out for the DC (good sleepers) for a couple of hours while we tried out a new bar. She was thrilled to be asked and said they hadn’t liked to offer as they didn’t want to be intrusive. Other family members who had stayed with them in the past had been very PFB about leaving the DC with her and it had made her wary of offering again.

So we had wanted them to babysit, they had wanted to babysit and everyone was just being too polite to speak up!

But it’s their holiday too - maybe they don’t want to babysit on holiday, Did you ask?

The kids are your responsibility and yes, they spoil things you want to do for a few years.
Why should you expect your family to pitch in, even though you do/did for them.
That makes you, thoughtful or a mug and them, selfish or not wanting to care for your little ones.
Don’t be upset by what is, when they are grown and gone you’ll cherish these days

So you on a family holidays, arranging trips that you know nothing about and have not been included in. Im wondering why did they bother invite you if they had no intentions of doing some activities with you and your children. I wouldnt let rip, however equally i dont think i would be going on holiday with them whilst my children are still young. Any baby sitting they may need in the future would be a striaght up, No i cant. To be honest i can understand about not wanting to babysit. Its the part where your not invovled in the planning of activities and clearly not aware until after the plan has been made. The fact that you and your children didnt factor into any of the plans. Thats hurtful.

I think the solution is not to holiday with them anymore. Decline and holiday on your own, making sure you get something with a kids club or the like.

I hated the toddler/pre-school years and now my son has autism and his behaviour is very trying so I'd not wish to spend any time babysitting young children, babies or toddlers on holiday or expect others to. I'm so over that stage.

Holidaying with them obviously leads to resentment on your part so it's best to avoid it from now on.