Pissed off at lack of support on family holiday

[Belleende]

Some background. I am the youngest of 4 siblings. We are currently on a family holiday with my parents. I have 2 kids, 4 yo and 20 month old. The rest of the kids are all 10 and older.

Myself and DP have zero family support around, so very rarely go out, and as our 2 are vv early risers never get a lie in. This holiday has been particularly bad with neither of them sleeping well. I have been getting 2 to 4 hours sleep a night, with 2 totally sleepless nights. I have been on my knees.

In the time we have been here my siblings have offered only once to mind the kids so me and DP could go out and even then only after we had put them to bed. We have not been invited to any group activities. No one has even come to the beach with us.

Before my own kids came along I babysat regularly for both my sisters, have supported them unstintingly, dug my eldest sister out of numerous holes (including collecting her kids from the airport this trip just hours after we had arrived).

The final straw came last night when I discovered that everyone has booked a day trip today that is totally not suitable for my two, and it is our last day here.

AIBU to let rip and put a dampener on the last day of the holiday, or do I just quietly withdraw?

@Kokeshi123

But how do the practicalities of the others helping op work? Should everyone else not do what they want on holiday in order to help op out? Only she has refused to go to the beach that they wanted to go to and has refused to go on the trip today (although also says they weren't invited) because it's not suitable for a buggy plus it's hot and she's feeling dizzy. So, in order to be available to help it seems that the other families can only do the things that op is ok with. That doesn't seem very fair when it's their holiday too and they have babysat already so that op and DH can go out.

When op looked after her nieces or nephews when they were little - I wonder if this was on holiday or back at home? It's less of a sacrifice to give up a day at home to babysit than to give up days out whilst on holiday to babysit.

I wonder if op has suggested that they take it in turns to stay with all of the children and give the adults a chance to go out on their own for a meal? Maybe the older children's parents would also.welcome an evening to have dinner with just their partner and no children?

@Belleende I think it's weird to say you made it clear you were 'cashing in your chips.' So how did that conversation go? 'Yes we'd love to come but you all better damn well help me look after the kids after all the times I've helped you?' Maybe that got people's backs up a bit. Plus, your nephews and nieces might not be interested in watching your kids.

To be fair, though, holidays abroad with toddlers can be a nightmare.

PP said it’s easier for the siblings with teens to take the little ones as they can keep an eye on them etc. News flash- I have a 14 year old, he smiles at babies, says hello, and that’s his bit done. If I told him he was spending the day ‘minding’ a 4 year old and toddler, I wouldn’t get him out of bed, and if I managed too, he would whine more than the little ones. Because he is just not interested in them, and he’s allowed to feel that way. He would rather spend the day in the pool, on the beach and in the sea body boarding or paddle boarding or going to an attraction, which probably wouldn’t be suitable for little ones.

It’s the teens holiday too, they are not their as baby sitters, nor should they be used as such. There are TWO parents to look after OP’s children, some people make it sound like she’s a single mum who needs help.

I agree with a lot of people on here saying the OP shouldn't expect help etc, I'd be one of these people I'm afraid. But, and it's a big but, I'd be really upset if I'd been invited on a family holiday and my family didn't want to spend time with us, and also arranged family days out without thinking if our family could go. As much as I'd not want to look after someone else's kids, I'd make sure they could go and accommodate them on family outings etc.

‘Myself and DP have zero family support around, so very rarely go out’

This is from the OPs opening post and I think it speaks volumes. If the OP is barely having any social life with her dh I expect she invested a huge amount in this holiday, expecting to have babysitters on tap... kind of ‘making up for’ the rest of the year.

Quite understandably, everyone else on the holiday wants to enjoy their break from routine too, to be free to do the activities they want and not be constrained by babies and toddlers.

The solution for the OP is to not assume that family are going to spend their holiday on childcare duties. Far better to pay for a babysitter now and then so you and your dh can regularly go out and have time together.

You sound worn out and fed up OP. Honestly the solution is in your hands. The early wake ups need to be shared with your dh while you’re on holiday. And get over the idea that unless you have family close by it’s an end to your social life. Many of us are in a similar boat... we always paid for every bit of childcare or babysitting. We also did a couple of family holidays when our kids were young and never expected others to babysit or do early morning get ups - my view is that the holiday is for everyone and therefore you can’t dictate that other people should be minding your kids

Bertrand has it spot on. Only on MN is it "entitled" to expect family to muck in and help out with/entertain small DC on a family holiday.

All this stuff about having to ask for help and specify exactly what kind of help and support you'd like...surely anyone who knows you well enough to be on holiday with you in the first place can see when you're stressed out, sleep deprived and could do with a break? Most of the families I know (the ones that aren't completely dysfunctional anyway) rally round the parents of babies/toddlers at family events or trips away without needing to be asked. It's not necessarily about "babysitting" per se, it's the little day to day things. It might be a case of someone noticing that a parent is trying to eat thier dinner one handed and finding a way to distract the baby so they can finish their meal in peace or playing with the kids for ten minutes in the morning so that both parents can drink their coffee while it's still hot. I wouldn't necessarily expect teenagers to babysit for the evening but I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "why don't you read your little cousins a story or play a quick game with them so Aunty and Uncle so and so can have a break?" Yes, it's "their holiday too" but it won't do them any harm and teaches them that being part of a family means having a bit of consideration for others and occasionally putting yourself out for the people you love. I also don't understand all the posters saying that OP's siblings whose DC are now older and more independent shouldn't feel obligated to help with small DC because "they've been there, done that" etc. When we go away with my DP's, Aunts and Uncles etc it's precisely because they've 'been there, done that' that they offer to help those with babies and small children. They remember how hard those early years can be. They also remember how appreciative they were of being given a break now and then by other family members and they want to pass it on.

I’m torn on this one.
On the one hand, my dcs are all older now and going on holiday with toddlers would be my idea of hell. I have friends with much younger kids and I find it all a bit frustrating these days- the constant noise, stop/starting and running around etc etc. I’m done with all that now. Saying that I often help my friends out with babysitting. It’s just day trips that I can’t be dealing with.
I wouldn’t agree to a family holiday with such a mixture of kids howeve because as you say, if people don’t help out one family get excluded. I think your family were selfish to agree to the holiday and then make no effort to include you or help out with the DC.

The OP is complaining about her own kids waking early in the morning. What does she expect? Other family members to set their alarms for 5:30 am to look after her kids? Why can’t she do what any reasonable couple do on holiday and alternate getting up?

Plus she seems to expect teenage nephews and nieces to mind her children which is really not on at all... many teenagers want to do completely different things. They can still be perfectly polite, well rounded, lovely young people without necessarily wanting to spend their holiday looking after little kids.
It also comes across as though the OP doesnt want the rest of the group to go out for the day to a place they want to go to simply because she ‘can’t’ go. It’s not that she can’t, she could go and her dh could do something more child friendly with the kids. Why should the rest of the family group have to abandon the plan?

We had a holiday exactly like this when ours were 4 and 1. None of our siblings had any children so didn’t get it. I was terse, tearful, resentful and absolutely exhausted by the end.

No ones fault, it just didn’t work for me. The idea was suggested again 2 years later, but they wouldn’t consider any kid friendly holidays so we declined, much to their chagrain. Went to a TUI kids club instead and it was a world of difference for us - everyone got a bit of what they wanted and it was actually a holiday where we felt better when we left than when we arrived!

Try not to explode. Grit your teeth. And never repeat the experience. Book a TUI Family Life or similar if funds permit and it’ll be a world of difference (though obviously not what you’d have chosen pre kids).

And by the way, a pool when you have a 20 month old sounds a nightmare?

I find some of the replies on this thread a bit sad. As a family we would spot if others (inc friends) were frazzled or their kids acting up, and try to help. I can’t imagine just sitting or lying there and letting others get on with it. Same goes for the older kids who love keeping the little ones entertained, playing and pool games. If everyone mucks in a bit the workload is shared and not too onerous.

Only on MN is it

how much do I hate this expression... So in the real world people have different opinions and views than you? What a shock. Maybe you only realise it on MN, but people around you probably have different ideas too.

Well done for not letting rip - it would have been a mistake.

I agree with the poster who said you may have got some home truths back. Poor child sleep routines, babies waking children up, poor sharing of tasks between you and DH ... we aren’t there so who knows, but I think it the feelings won’t be as one way as you imagine.

I think they are organising things to get away from you! It’s not personal. There aren’t that many things that are as suitable for teens and for babies. Everyone can move around so much faster with teens. They are looking out for their own kids - and being good parents to them.

I also dislike this attitude that pops up now and again that unless teenagers are willing to entertain their younger relatives then they’re selfish, or that if older relatives aren’t offering free childcare then the family must be dysfunctional.

I can think of loads of perfectly polite, well adjusted teenagers who are very pleasant to be around but who would not go along with the assumption that their holiday is about entertaining younger kids. Absolutely fine if they want to.... one of my three would have been straight in there reading stories or building sandcastles. The other two wouldn’t ... they would have wanted to go off and do their own thing and that’s fine too.

Likewise with the childcare thing... it’s very entitled to expect anything. Great if it’s offered, but it shouldn’t be expected- after all this is everyone’s holiday. And actually the OP admitted they’d had the relatives babysit one evening so she could go out with her dh but even then complained it was after they’d put the kids to bed themselves. Entitled much?

“I can think of loads of perfectly polite, well adjusted teenagers who are very pleasant to be around but who would not go along with the assumption that their holiday is about entertaining younger kids.“

Nobody is suggesting it should be. Some of us are suggesting that a teenager should be perfectly happy to play with his little cousins for half an hour while their parents finish their lunch. Or to play with them in the pool for half an hour while their parents take a breather. That’s hardly saying their holiday is ^about entertaining kids.
If you don’t want normal family interaction, don’t go on a family holiday.

Maybe this is a new trend to expect family members to help with small kids on holiday. I have indeed heard colleagues mentoning they wouldnt normally go with family but do so just because they get the grandparents to babysit so they get a break.

I don't ever recall my friends going on holiday with their parents and expecting them to look after their kids (except my sister!). There was an assumption that your kids, you look after them. Family members who didn't have kids then sometimes offered because it is fun before you have your own and have much more energy but that's that.

As its been mentioned, the others might too be sleep deprived because of OP's kids poor sleep. Surely the kids take naps and that's when you get your break. They had one evening to enjoy as a couple. I suspe t the last day was arranged without them because they got tired of OP's moaning a out how tired she was.

“Maybe this is a new trend to expect family members to help with small kids on holiday.“

No. The new trend is the “my little family” bollocks.

But op says this Bertrand

The teenagers have been disinterested beyond mucking about in the pool.

So they have been perfectly happy to play with his little cousins for half an hour while their parents finish their lunch. Or to play with them in the pool for half an hour while their parents take a breather.

The adults have also babysat for an evening. Op has complained that the group is going on a trip to a place that isn't buggy friendly but is somewhere that she really wants to go - I don't understand who she thinks is at fault there? If it's not buggy friendly and she won't carry her children what did she want to happen? Is she saying that the rest of the group shouldn't go because she can't go? Or is she saying that someone else should have stayed behind to look after her children so that she could go? Because, unless it was her husband missing the trip, I don't think either of those options are reasonable.

It would seem that members of the group are mucking in, but it's not in the way op wants nor is it as much as she wants. But it's wrong to say that no one is helping or that the older children aren't even playing with the little ones for half an hour

I don't know if it's new, but there is definitively a trend of parents expecting to have "their evenings for themselves", "weekends away from the kids", "nights out with their partner", "child-free holiday", me-time, grown-up time and the list goes on.

All fine, but if you want babysitters, pay for them, don't assume and expect your family to have to do it for you. Having to look after your own kids is part of being a parent - shocking as that may sound.

What’s the point of going on holiday with extended family if they all just fuck off and leave you to it? Isn’t the point of going as a group, you know, actually spending time together?

Who said they didn't spend time together at all?

They don't have to be glued together for the entire duration, it's fine to
It's the OP who wanted a night off with her DH and the family babysat for them. OP herself didn't want to spend the entire holiday with all the family. Which is normal.

i totally agree with IheartNiles and ohfourfoxache.

Slightly off topic, but when you get back contact your health visitor to try and get on top of the sleep issues, life seems so much better and you feel more resilient when you are not on your knees with tiredness. It’s not ok to be only getting 2-4 hours a night, and you need support with this. I know some areas run private sleep advice clinics which I’ve heard good feedback on if you can afford it.

Sorry you’ve had a crap holiday, it does seem mean that none of your family could take your kids for a couple hours here and there to give you a break and to catch up on sleep.

But from what the OP is saying it's her excluding herself - twice they've refused to go to the beach with the group because she felt that beach wasn't suitable, she wouldn't go on the day trip because it wasn't buggy friendly and she wouldn't use slings and it was too hot - so apparently what she wanted was for the holiday to revolve around her, her children and what she deemed suitable activities. Which isn't fair to anyone else on the holiday is it?

Why not go to the beach with the group? Ok, there were no life guards but were they going to let a 2 and 4 year old swim in the sea unaccompanied? Surely they'd just be messing about at the water's edge with the parents so why need life guards?

I think the op has separated herself from the group and is now upset that she's missing out, when that's by her own choice.

I don’t think you can expect childcare but you should be included in the activities.
Also you can’t expect teenagers to help out with childcare, not their responsibility. They just don’t want to hang with little kids. If anyone was to help it should have been your siblings.
Re the activities, I think you need to say something, ideally you should say it at the time, ‘that beach isn’t suitable for our kids, can we go to xxx instead?’ It’s not rude, it’s just asking to be involved.

I don't think OP has engaged enough with the thread to give a proper picture of what's going on. I think she just wanted to vent and has now probably lost interest because she doesn't actually want to debate the ins and outs of it.

Without knowing how her and her dh share the childcare, for example, we have no idea if she is being reasonable or not.